Seriously? It seems to me that your biggest problem is acting too much like spoiled ass str8 womyn. You sound like f'ng Goldilocks. Don't act too butch, don't act to femme, act just right to make me happy. This attitude makes me ill. No wonder so many butches prefer to be alone as they get older. It's better than emotionally enslaving themselves to spoiled femme girls that need to remake their partner into their ideal of perfection.

*alone

This post sounds more like a job advertisement than problems between this and that. Laborer, Must pay attention to detail, show up on time, be trustworthy, must be able to lift up to 75lbs, haha! No, this is not an add for foreman, if your looking to be a foreman, apply elsewhere. LoL

while i don't necessarily agree w/ the "spoiled ass str8 womyn" comment (honestly i know a lot of straight chicks who are waaaay less demanding of their partners than this femme's list) i'm also glad i'm not the only one who kinda recoiled @ the goldilocks/princessy 'tude... then again, this just reinforces the reality that i'm a (self ID'ed) faggy butch & i've never found the idea of dating a femme appealing :P the only part of this that made sense to me was #5, & really EVERYONE should be honest in their relationships, whatever their identity. the ultimatum laden "do _____ to my (nebulous) specifications or we're going to have issues" approach makes my skin crawl - give me another low maintenance rough'n'tumble butch-of-center queer any day!

Bah. I think her comments say more about her than they do about me. But thank you to the folks you got the joke and have enjoyed the post. =)

@rhianimal,

Your post brings up some important points that I think are necessary to any discussion of b/f dynamics, even if people dance around them or pretend they're not there. I thank Sarah for her honest post, and BW for publishing it. But I can't deny that parts of it made me feel a little uncomfortable. I'm speaking as a person who, while not stereotypically high femme, is definitely feminine-energied and socialized into very feminine modes of speaking, talking, walking, being.

I continue to struggle with why I find masculine energy* so 100% necessary in order to feel emotionally connected to a potential partner (as opposed to sexually interested; I am potentially sexually attracted to the whole female sex). And the unpalatable answers that come back to me are that I strongly admire masculine energy (in whatever biological sex or form it comes), that I even exalt it, and that deep down, I wish *I* had more of the skills, attributes, and modes of being that are socialized into men and boys and that butches or other masculine-energied women display.

And then I take it a step further, and I realize there are certain "feminine"-identified ways of being that I almost instinctively (due to socialization) display in a relationship that I slightly hold in contempt in myself. Those are things like, yes, wanting my partner to *want* to get rid of the spiders or take on the physical burdens usually associated with masculinity. Or my feeling that the other party should instinctively want to shield me from harm *in the way a masculine person is trained to want to shield women* (as opposed to the maternal, mother-lion way I have been trained to want to shield my loved ones from harm).

Then, after having gotten to the point of realizing that I slightly resent these feminine-socialized urges in me and that I'm frustrated with myself for not having more of the traits I admire in masculine-energied folks, I come up against the most unpalatable realization of all: that I hold femininity in contempt because in this world in which we live, we are taught that femininity is contemptible.

Everything honorable, everything brave, everything confident and proactive is masculine. That's what Walt Disney, Madison Avenue, and a hundred folktales and fairy tales (both Western and non-Western) instilled in me since birth. Meanwhile, everything circumspect, averse to physical jeopardy, and passive was feminine. No wonder I watched the old swashbucklers and the 80s action flicks as a kid and identified more with the hero than with the heroine: in a culture that exalts the heroic qualities of masculinity, who wouldn't want to be the hero---who wouldn't subconsciously scorn the passivity of the feminine-energied damsel?

Once or twice, I've wondered in passing why butch women who date femmes tolerate pronounced femininity in their partners; I wonder if they don't secretly hold femmes in contempt for that femininity. Can they resent what they profess to be attracted to (femininity)? And the answer to that is that, of course, in a culture like ours, masculinity is more than capable of harboring a deep resentment towards that which it craves. Legions of hetero men have a deep resentment towards the women they lust after; het men can crave femininity in one breath yet denounce it as weak, spoiled, and self-entitled in another. And they resent the fact of their own weak flesh, for falling prey to something--femininity--that is so contemptible. Surely the same dynamic might apply to some masculine women who are physically and/or emotionally attracted to feminine ones?

So, yes, I did feel a prick of discomfort as I read this post. But when I stop to reflect on it, I realize that the discomfort comes from within me; it is my own internalization of the contempt directed towards femininity in our society. I recognize myself in what Sarah writes, and I don't like it. Deep down, I wish so many of my urges and needs weren't feminine-socialized ones; I wish I didn't "need" a masculine-energied partner in order to feel emotionally content in a relationship.

Deep down, too, I wish I valued the feminine-socialized things in me that society tells me are weak and contemptible.

Thanks for the discussion.

*Masculine energy in a woman does not have to come in butch form.

Rhianimals comments have a note of bitterness, maybe even some contempt (as evidenced by her swearing) but the bitterness I can relate to. I'm fond of femmes. I like when they're smart, witty and well-read and I like when they're gracious and essentially gentle. But just as butches, AG's and studs need to know when they've come upon a narcissist and should cut their losses, femmes have a responsibilty to communicate their desires, maybe if not always clearly and explicitly, then at least consistently, and I have not always found that to be the case. Nevertheless, the real issue seems to be that being truthful with one'self at least raises the likelihood of being truthful to others, if not in words, then at least in actions.

Lol seriously this femme is on the money! I'm butch and I can relate to everything she has said. I've watched many relationships fail due to one or a few of the five points listed not being adhered to. Thanks for the great blog, it gave me a good laugh :-)

I pay someone to change my oil, but i recently did my own brakes!

Hey Sarah.

I am an old Butch who fits none of your five points. I do, however, know of one other Butch foil in relationships: not knowing how to be vulnerable and running away when it happens. Could be to another woman, could be to alcohol. But ultimately, it's about fearing what happens if we are vulnerable sexually and to our fears of loss. Doesn't mean we don't eventually learn the lessons. Just that it is our greatest weakness and takes a lot of learning to get over. Thanks for the post.

Hey Sarah, if people aren't quite reading your humor the way you intended, maybe you want to try expressing it in a different way? Your intent is obviously getting lost on a lot of people, so you may want to clarify. As a fellow writer, I know the burden lies with me; if my audience misunderstands, it is because I haven't explained myself completely.

Yeah, this is an excellent post!

I am a femme, I agree that balance is the key to pretty much all relationships. My butch spouse and I have had discussions about the work thing, she tends to want to put the job ahead of me. We established the boundries of our femme/butch behavior way at the beginning of the relationship, with honesty and just being who we are, things work out very well. 5 yrs strong...I always say, look for what you want in a person, don't try to make a person into something you want....

@Dee,
We all have things we're attracted to or not attracted to. I think if we try to ignore those things because they aren't viewed as "right" we just wind up with people we either aren't physically attracted to or aren't emotionally attracted to. There is nothing in the world wrong with behavior that would be seen as more "feminine" or behavior that would be more "masculine." We just like what we like If we can accept that about ourselves and not judge our own feelings I think we can find more satisfying relationships. I've spent a lot of time in relationships with people I wasn't really attracted to because I thought a "nice" person wouldn't feel that way. But we can't force ourselves to be drawn to something else just because society says we should. That would be like forcing myself to be with a man because society says I should, when in my heart, I'm not attracted to men. It doesn't mean I hate men.

Well let me have you know the writer of this article is my girlfriend and there is no way this woman has the goldilocks/princess attitude. She is perfect the way she is and her thought process for this article was amazing. She is only spoiled by me and no others because I believe in spoiling the lady of the house. She has made me the happiest butch in the world cause has aloud me to be me. And we do communicate if there is an issue and we work together making our relationship and home work. That is what true relationships are about. So thank you for calling her a princess cause is is MY amazing princess..

I'm a femme, and I usually date masculine-spectrum people. I think it's really dangerous, though, to talk about one gender (which I consider butch and femme to be) as the ones who do X and the other as the ones who do Y. Some butches (and men, trans or cis) I've dated cry a lot. I don't cry much at all. I really love to buy flowers for my sweetie, prefer to be the one driving, and no one is expected to be the bug-killer by default. I hate to cook. I like to sew and craft. I am the one who assembles the IKEA furniture, and I take pride in my ability to lift heavy boxes. None of these things have to do with my gender expression. I think it's dangerous to put each other in boxes, because I always wonder, "Well, what ELSE is expected here?"

@Mx. Punk
I can understand your thoughts as far as male/female wording go. When I talk about male or female as opposed to butch or femme it's because of the type of gender roles I'm talking about in those positions. There are many ways to be butch or femme, so to just say butch or femme I don't think really defines the trait I'm trying to discuss. Talking about stereotypes in a humorous manner is a way to retake those perceived ideas and regain our power over them, similar to the way we may choose to embrace the word "dyke" or African American people may embrace the word "nigger" among each other because it takes the power in the word away from the negative intention of the original user and returns the power to us who choose to create our own positive empowering picture of what a "dyke" is. By embracing those parts of ourselves we make them positive and powerful rather than negative. For instance, there have been words here used to refer to my albeit exaggerated but mostly truthful portrayal of myself as a femme in this post. These words include princess, high-maintenance, spoiled, entitled, etc. etc. all intended with negative connotations. To me, those same traits are self-awareness, self-esteem, and an acceptance of who I am. None of those things are negative in my eyes.

I think that the only thing this post elucidated for me is that sexuality and gender are highly personalized and no one will ever be successfully able to construct a list that reflects the personal experiences and wants/needs of a person other than themself, including the femme who wrote this list. Aside from validating the personal preferences of a few people, I can see no value in sharing lists like this; I wasn't the only person who read it that was horrified at the language, sexism, transphobia, classism, etc. It reads like a personal ad from b-f.com. Why was it even posted?

bw, i'm going to poke my head in to say that you're generally very respectful, thoughtful, and you tend to avoid problematic language. i think such lists can be fun to share-- your lists are always fun. for me, the difference between this list and your lists is that you're bw and you write like bw. know what i mean? i think it's how you write lists...

Great comment. Spot on.

I have no problem with this list as long as it's sort of a personal manifesto for the author's relationship preferences, but the gender role prescription makes me *really* uncomfortable with the idea that this could be some sort of advice column with a takeaway message for readers.

One of the most wonderful parts about being queer is that we have the freedom to build relationships from the ground up without having to bend to society's "rules." Sure, there's a lot of pressure from mainstream society to behave in certain ways, but the courage and thoughtfulness that goes into being openly queer naturally facilitates courage and thoughtfulness about the way we choose to behave in relationships. It seems like such a big step backward to define queer gender performance as ways of acting "like a man" or "like a woman." What does that even mean? Is this the 1950s?

I'm femme and my partner is butch, and one of my favorite things about our relationship is our commitment to sharing responsibility as equally as possible both in and out of the home. We both cook and clean and work and take care of business as it comes up. She kills the cockroaches (OK, picks up the dead carcasses after the cats have had their fun) because I'm afraid of them and she isn't, not because I'm a princess. I recently made a minor repair on the car because I wanted to learn how to do it (and she thought it was pretty sexy and not at all a threat to her masculinity--besides, she didn't know how to fix the car, either). This isn't to say that we strive for equality so doggedly that we're actually limited by the mission to be equal. (For instance, she brings home more bacon than me because I'm a grad student with a small income, but once I'm done with school and working more steadily I'd be willing to support her if she decided to make a career change, etc.) It's just that, for us, shucking the *behavioral pressure* that comes from gender roles actually allows us to perform gender in more pleasurable, complicated, free ways. Sorry to get into personal examples from my relationship--I don't want to pretend that things are perfect, but I want to provide another portrait of butch-femme reality.

No problem, and thank you!

And just to clarify--yeah, I wasn't trying to criticize a specific identity (like "princess") either. I was attempting to point out that it's problematic to imply that there's a limited number of ideal or even acceptable ways for butches and femmes to act, when in actuality queerness ushers in infinite possibilities for identities, behaviors, and ways of relating to each other, all of which are acceptable as long as consenting adults are involved.

BW,
I appreciate your response to commenters, but I still fail to see how this post was tongue in cheek, nor have I detected any of the "humor" referenced by the author in comments.

Just saying.

@K Hi there and thanks for recognizing that I might be here. I'm running out of words as I've been going through these posts and kind of appalled at the accusations and assumptions about my character. I appreciate that you recognized that his list has more to do with my own experiences. We can only write from our own experience and perspective, and while this list has tons of over-the-top exaggeration there are still pieces of it that have been issues for me, and others in my life, over the years. I couldn't possibly express all the combinations of relationships or gender roles or potential issues that can occur in every possible relationships dynamic, To try and do so in this type of format would be an unrealistic goal on my part I'm not writing a doctoral thesis, just a little blog post. =) There were some pieces edited out that I felt clarified things a little more, but didn't really detract from the overall intent of the piece by their removal. The point I was trying to make is that there needs to be a balance between masculine and feminine, work and home, and that we need to be honest with ourselves and our partners about our true natures and desires so that we can find the people who fit us rather than continually looking for what we're "supposed" to like. I, as a femme identified lesbian prefer a butch who is "old-school" opens doors, buys the flowers, but that doesn't mean that butches who aren't that way aren't just as butch or just as acceptable as people. Nor are femmes who like to build things less femme or less acceptable as people.I think we all need to give ourselves the freedom to express ourselves as who we are, and to accept our own likes and dislikes without declaring them "bad" because they aren't socially acceptable, or sometimes even what a "nice" person would do.

I think one of the biggest mistakes anyone can make in a relationship is to pigeon hole a partner/spouse because it limits both people's ability to grow, change, and surprise. If there are such rigid rules about butch/femme, how is the relationship ever to survive when roles are put into such tight little boxes? If I had done that 17yrs ago, I wouldn't have been able to be surprised at what a kick-ass stay-at-home mom my butch partner is or I may have never known that I can be the sole financial provider for my family of five.

Also, perhaps butch/femme relationships have their own unique dynamics but I'd venture to say that they aren't THAT different than those of a myriad of other relationship combos (straight, femme/femme, butch/butch, trans man/femme ...so many). And that the author's five point manifesto apply to ALL relationships.

I know, I know, this blog is specific to butches but I just don't think that her list - tongue in cheek or hyperbole - applies solely to butches in any way, shape, or form.

What a brilliant post!! Sarah, I appreciate this so much and totally got the tongue-in-cheek humour. xKerri

I love this post! My wife is my princess and I wouldn't have it any other way. I love making her smile and I love the fact that she relys on me for certain things but would also find it fun to change oil or get dirty right along with me.

Sarah,

I have a deep appreciation for humor, sarcasm, even hyperbole around trite stereotypes all in the name of entertainment and creative expression. And if that was your intention I can appreciate your post, but I would ask that you pause to consider that your impact is far greater and vastly different than you a.) anticipated it would be b.) want it to be.

Your continued flippant "Oh, whatever" or "Lordy people" responses are very telling in that you don't want or aren't yet ready to own your own writing and the ripple effect it has had. If you are going to entertain through sarcasm or hyperbole around stereotypes and people's identities then you must be prepared to respect the voices and opinions and feelings of your readers. You don't have to agree or capitulate to changing your mind.

It is not easy to post a blog not knowing what the reactions will be. It is also not easy to really embrace the opportunity to really hear the thoughts of those taking the time to engage with you via comments. Because all of these folks who have left a comment are demonstrating that they care about the message you're sending and the way it's being presented. Divisive topics like stereotypes come with rich opportunity to put aside those assumptions and give pause and listen. I'm not seeing you do that. You're flippant responses are sending the message that you don't want to really stand behind what you're saying - even if you think it's merely humorous.

Humor can hurt too. Take a moment and think about how your intention may have gotten lost and delivered a hurtful impact to some of these readers.

Lordy people, the only assumptions here have been made by readers. I am not gender biased or transphobic, high maintenance or even high femme. I am a middle of the road average independent femme with a sarcastic sense of humor about everything including myself. You can see that if you read my personal blog where I freely discuss my own baggage and personal issues in the same sarcastic self-deprecating manner. This list is hyperbole for effect and to ask me to write differently is asking me to be untrue to who I am and how I express myself as a writer. I had no idea when I submitted this post as a candidate for a guest spot that it would spark this kind of controversy, as I'm sure BW did not as well, or it would have been rejected. It's been taken far too seriously and far too personally Overexaggerated stereotypes are amusing because not only are they so far over the top that no one person could ever encompass them all but they also contain grains of truth. If we are mature enough to laugh at ourselves and our foibles we can embrace the people we are, whether that means being a butch afraid of spiders or a femme who likes to tinker with cars. The only part of this post intended to be taken as "my personal manifesto" is #5 in which I state that we all should be and embrace the people that we are and share them honestly with the people in our lives so that we can live our lives to the fullest with people who appreciate us for who we are.

There has been a lot of good and/or in-depth discussion here, so although I was originally poised to write a full response, I don't find it necessary anymore. I know the original poster has responded in depth and is feeling more or less attacked. I don't want to attack her further, but I do want to explain my own response in case that is informational to her or anyone else.

The journalistic style of Top X lists is popular because it gets hits, but these lists can rarely be taken practically to usefulness because they reflect the ideology and experiences of their writers but not necessarily of the readers.

Case in point, the many women's fashion and advice magazines that showcase the best ways to hide your real figure, or to make your boyfriend feel like a real man, are regarded with mockery and skepticism by most dykes or transqueers.

In the lesbian queer trans gay bisexual canon, which is largely online and ever evolving now, I think that we are kind of steeled against rule lists like that.

I tried to make a rule list for femmes in response, but realized later that I'd failed to make one that would not exclude or offend someone. That I was writing this list because of a reactionary feeling based on the original post, which triggered something in me that I did not like.

I have personally had some very unhealthy interactions with femmes, which have begun with their accusations that I was not in fact what I presented myself to be. As the original poster indicates in her comments.

Jobless and mooching has never been part of my description. Most of the femmes I've dated, have relied on MY income, not vice versa, and I don't like to be a braggart, but someone has to step up to the stereotype that you introduced, that butch women aren't up to earning their own keep. It's a nasty stereotype.

I never had a separate "presentation" that was apart from my real self, so I was always puzzled by what they meant.

In the end (by that I mean at the end of our relationships), I was informed that I was not a real butch.

This, to me, is akin to a straight female divorcee who likes to twist the fork by saying "you never made me come."

It is manipulative, ugly, mean, and ungraceful.

If, in the butch-femme dynamics of current interactions, we are opting to borrow from the concepts of courtly love, then I think that the femmes who are ungraceful like this, should be discounted, just as they discount those of us of a masculine persuasion, who do not fit their ideals.

We can try to bend to their wills, but we never will, most likely, because in their one-sided need for pedestaled worship, they are unsatisfiable, which instead of a flaw, they choose to see as an attribute. They hope that a domineering, pantyhosing manner might make them seem ridiculously appealing and yet unattainable, which they hope is an obstacle that every true blooded butch will wish to prove wrong.

But if someone thinks like that, they are actually disturbed, and they are inviting you into the club of feeding their ego.

I guess if you are extra hot, it could be considered by me as a pastime, in my past. But now that I've come up in the world, who has the time?

Coming late to the party, but I want to point out something about where you say butches tend to have jobs, then lose them & mooch off you.

This butch doesn't, and neither do those I know. The folks who are that type, I've learned to avoid. It's a skill you might try and pick up.

That is, do some work, darlin', and look at something: if you tend to end up dating women with Trait A, I think it's something YOU need to figure out how to fix in you. There are plenty of other women out there with Traits B-Z that you're not finding. Ask yourself why, and work on it.

Sarah
Hahaha you go , As a butch that dates a high maintenance princess, Seriously i do!
I think your original post is cool and honestly i fall in the middle off your comments and totally love my role and my baby Grrl who again enjoys her role. Not that we are acting because we are not, it's just who we are and it makes us lucky and happy to have found each other.

We just hit 18 years together, happy as hell. When we were younger, everyone said I was butch but as we grew older together, she's put on weight so by appearance, people categorize her as butch, but she can't stand to get grease on her hands, lol.
She's bigger boned. Whereas, I enjoy working on cars. Are we butch or femme, why classify? This post we're responding to sounds more like job advertisement to me. It could even be re-written. Laborer, Must pay attention to detail, show up on time, be trustworthy, must be able to lift up to 75lbs, haha! No, this is not an add for foreman, if your looking to be a foreman, apply elsewhere. LoL