Butch Wonders
  • Blog
  • Butch Store: Genderqueer Us
  • About
  • Contact

Are Butches Disappearing?

2/22/2015

20 Comments

 
Picture
I've been hearing a lot about the "disappearing butch"—the idea that those of us in the queer community who identify as butch are becoming fewer.  I don't know if this is so, but there's enough conversation around it that it seems a possibility.  I've heard two reasons cited, and I have very different reactions to each:

(1) Butches are transitioning from being female-identified butches to being trans men.
(2) The term "butch," particularly for younger people, is falling out of vogue.

As to the first reason—as I've written before, I think it’s a little silly.  Not because it's not true, but because it misses the point.  Gender transitions have become much easier socially and logistically for many people in the past decade, so it's only natural that there's a "backlog" of people who present as butch women, but would have transitioned earlier if they could have, and some of whom are transitioning now.  There's also greater awareness among youth that trans* identities are even a "thing."  If you feel like you are a man, or want to be a man, you don't have to "settle" for being a butch woman because it's the closest available approximation.  So naturally, the proportions are in flux.  Shouldn't we be happy  people are increasingly able to embrace and express their true identities?  (Answer: yes.)

Admittedly, I *do* worry that with the increased availability of transitioning, some young female butches (like middle- and high-school-age) might assume that they are trans* simply because they don’t fit into existing gender categories.  That is, if everything they like is "boyish" and they see no alternative role models for what femaleness can look like, they might assume that they are "really" meant to be a boy.  I know I would have thought that about myself in elementary school, had I even known that people could transition.  I was much more like a "typical" boy than a "typical" girl, and it's really hard being an atypical version of a gender in a society that really embraces the idea of a gender binary.  Still, maybe my concern about the lack of visible models for gender non-normativity is overblown.  (And, to be clear, I'm not suggesting its easy to be a trans kid these days—far from it.)

The second point is more intriguing to me.  If it's true that younger people are embracing terms like "genderqueer" or "non-binary" or even "masculine-of-center," it just seems like the menu of gender identities is expanding.  It also strikes me that many of these are not mutually exclusive.  Can you be a genderqueer, masculine-of-center butch?  I don't see why not.  Personally, I don't identify as genderqueer, and it irritates me when people assume I do.  (It's as if they're saying that someone who looks like ME couldn't possibly be 100% woman.)  But I don't see why people shouldn't identify any way they want to, using as many or as few categories as they feel apply to them.

To some extent, though, we might wonder if the issue is partly a semantic one.  That is, do the same people who would have called themselves "butch" a generation ago call themselves "tomboy" or "boi" or "genderqueer" now, without ALSO considering themselves butch?  I think there might be something to this. 

Part of it is simply each generation's desire to define itself anew--to see itself as special and unprecedented (which, of course, it both is and is not).  Butch identity might feel "old school."  It also might not seem to encompass the more "feminine" end of the "masculine-of-center" spectrum.  Think about all the dykes who look vaguely like Justin Bieber, or who have more of a stereotypical gay male aesthetic than a stereotypical straight male aesthetic.  There's definitely an ethos there that they might not feel fits squarely under the label "butch" (even if many of us might think of them as butches). 

I've also encountered plenty of people who don't identify as butch because they believe that the term has connotations that are too negative (e.g., macho/misogynistic/unstylish) or too specific (e.g., only dates femmes) to apply to them.  To the extent that either phenomenon is going on, it's lousy.  I hate the negative connotations that people sometimes attach to butchness.  Butches at their best are chivalrous and respect ALL types of women (and men).  Sure, some butches are a-holes.  But some of every group are a-holes, and I highly doubt butches deviate from the average in this regard--only that when they do, it takes on a recognizable form that (sadly) contributes to a yucky stereotype. 

I also don't think "butch" is as specific a term as some people make it out to be.  Some butches hate power tools. 
Some butches date other butches.  Ideally, I think "butch" can be a nice, broad umbrella term that encompasses ALL of us who look sort of like guys, ALL of us who are occasionally told we're in the wrong restroom, and ALL of us who are unapologetically gender nonconforming.  I really like the idea of an umbrella term, because there are few enough of us who fall into the "masculine woman" category that it's useful to have at least one term that encompasses the myriad characteristics and experiences we have in common.

When I asked on the BW Facebook page whether the "disappearing butch" is a real phenomenon, the huge number of answers made it clear I'm not the only one who's been thinking about this!  Here are some of the responses I received:
  • People can't handle it when you want to be a gender f***er and ride that line. It seems that it is now much more acceptable to transition and be in the boys' club.
  • I think they are not calling themselves "butch" like they used to. 
  • I'm a cis-butch, and I think the fact that transmen are coming out and have a sense of community is fantastic. There were always this many transmen. It's just unfortunate that before they weren't able to come out.
  • It does seem that the younger generation is much quicker to declare themselves trans and stop identifying as female. I wish there were some actual statistics on this. As one who loves butches, I hate the thought that they are a dying breed.
  • I can tell you right now that for all the lesbians I hang out with, when it comes time to making plans, being strong, sticking up for somebody, or fixing something, everybody looks to me. Imagine what our community would be without us! I'm always quick to take a young buck under my ring to make sure they don't forget what it means to be Butch, and not immediately think they have to go trans (not that there is anything wrong with that but I do think there is a much larger portion of young people, particularly Butch and studs, that are quick to go trans, when that is not necessary as a masculine identifying female).
  • The disappearance of us i think might be more related to the value system we tend to share.
  • I live in Western Massachusetts and I see butches every day, but when I lived in Ohio I only had a handful of butch friends. (Seriously folks, if you like butches, come on down. We're all over the place here in Springfield, Easthampton, Northampton, and in many of the small towns of Western MA...)  We're not disappearing-- just some of the folks that people read as butch are identifying in a different way-- trans men, trans*, genderqueer, agender, etc-- there are so many identities, words, options, etc.
  • As far as "butch " disappearing, it seems that there are sooo many different labels and identifications heck I can NOT even keep up with it all . As long as you are comfortable and happy with yourself and true there will always be those longing for the "butch" TYPE.
  • I don't think that us Butch are disappearing, we're there, you just have to look. I am a heavy equipment operator at a local water district, and I see Butch women all over!
  • I really think the hard stone butches are on the way of becoming few and far between, but I feel there will always be some kind of masculine/feminine dynamic because it's just how things work...but I think we'll see more of a spectrum, just like you don't really see all that many "high femmes" anymore too!
  • I'm 28 so I'm not sure if I fall into the younger MOC, female identified crowd you're talking about but I do use butch for myself. I will say I don't know many others my age or younger who ID that way though. The term may seem outdated or directly linked with the Butch-Femme dynamic, which many of my friends don't fall into. I don't particularly fall into that but while I was figuring out my queer self, I happened to be a part of a Bulldaggers group who were a lot older than me. Their butch IDs greatly influenced me I think. I also think while you, Butch Wonders, are very careful to write about butches presenting in many ways and don't have to act in set ways either, I think that mindset isn't really the norm. I mean, I've heard way more talk of "butches are handy, dapper, strong, etc." and that is severely limiting. I'm not any of those things yet I still ID as butch. I think if more people talked about butches in various ways and not the same old tired stereotypes, maybe more young people would claim the ID. Maybe.
  • Butch all the way here! A few people have tried to call be a stud and I'm like uhhh no. I'm butch, not a stud!
  • Some are transitioning ftm. However, many are not. They are calling themselves genderqueer and using the pronoun 'they' instead of 'she'. Lots of folks are not transitioning medically, but are not identifying  as female either. They may not call themselves butch, but they're masculine of center, female-bodied...
  • [We're not disappearing], we just live the f**k out in the woods.
  • I live in Oakland (aka Dykeland) and the Butch community is alive and well.
  • Definitely less visible, particularly in 'mainstream' lesbian hangouts.
  • I certainly think the female-identified butch is much less prevalent. Fewer people seem to call themselves butch and more of those that do are identifying with male pronouns and/or becoming male. So, ultimately there are fewer butch lesbians and more butch men.
  • [Butches are] still here in progressive Seattle but I do find a number of people have asked me if I have thought about "transitioning". I'm butch and identify as female. I love and respect my trans brothers but butch is its own separate thing, too.
  • I identify as masculine of center, or trans*masculine. But ultimately as a woman. I've been thinking masculine of center, is probably most fitting; but maybe too definitive. I feel I'm gender non conforming. Maybe Trans*masculine butch, to recognize my my female Id. I'm Undecided. I think as a spectrum of gender IDs, we're very much still figuring this out, and creating as we recognize more of the spectrum.
  • What I've noticed is that the women who I would identify as butch are much less likely to take on that label. Weirdly, I am hearing a lot of lesbians say "tomboy" now. I thought a tomboy was a straight woman who played sports or fixed cars? I am more likely to say "I like masculine-of-centre women." Sounds obscure, but then no one seems to have problem with it and it invites them to ask for specifics.
  • I was just talking to my friends about this the other day and how there seems to be more of a butch presence in the south, but (during my travels), I've noticed a definite lack of masculine-of-center ladies in  more liberal/progressive cities.
  • Definitely not enough butches. NYC here.
  • I think it is, as people who would identify as butch have other identification options (I dont think they are mutually exclusive, but I guess most people do). I think sometimes the burden of being non conforming gets too hard to bear and hiding and trying to assimilate makes life easier for some.
  • If 'butch women' are coming out as TransGuys it's not coz they're abandoning 'being butch'? It's that they're being true to themselves. Perhaps more people can come out as men or non-binary when they couldn't before. I think it's a good thing the people are exploring genders and finding themselves rather that sticking strictly to M and F. That might mean less Butch women because they were never women to begin with and they can be themselves now.
  • I consider myself butch/dyke, but I don't hear the younger crowd identifying this way as much. They are exploring a much wider spread of pronouns and gender identification.
  • I too identify as butch/dyke/woman. Sometimes I think butch is disappearing with all the new gender exploration. We are still here!
  • I would echo what a few others have said. The gender spectrum is much more widely recognised now, hence many now identify as trans* when years gone by there was little recognised between butch woman or transman and many felt it had to be either one or the other. There is a lot more open diversity as a result of this, and fewer typical butches to be seen. The Queer scene continues to evolve, and has come a long way when you think it was once all butch and femme, and being butch ( many of which were actually trans*) had huge social implications and risk of experiencing violence.

Regardless of what's actually going on, it's clear that the queer community is in flux (as, perhaps, it always has been!), and that this is an issue near and dear to many people's hearts, butch and non-butch alike. 

What do YOU think?  Are butches "disappearing?"




20 Comments
SashaQ
2/22/2015 05:46:30 am

My identity has evolved a bit as I learned new words. I thought I was a masculine female, but when I got a girlfriend ♡ and found out what a woman was, I realised that I wasn't a woman so I am more of a feminine male with a mixture of body characteristics. I do like the idea of being a butch feminine male, though, so I have some clothes that make me feel particularly butch in some sense of the word, as well as other clothes that are more androgynous.

Reply
Katie
2/22/2015 07:08:49 am

I'd have to agree that many of my generation (I'm in my late 20's) and younger do identify with umbrella terms like "genderqueer" or "queer" in efforts not to be labeled. The truth is that we as humans simply identify by differences and by labeling. I, for one, am proud to be in the middle of butchness: chapstick and light foundation, right alongside my nail polish, all wrapped up in #4 buzzed sideburns and a patterned tie.

Reply
Mal
2/22/2015 09:57:30 am

As far as the term "butch" goes, language is constantly changing, so each new generation will always have some new term(s) to describe this particular identity. Ever since I was a kid "butch" was considered something that, as a female, you didn't want to be called. It has all those negative connotations you mentioned and those things are difficult to not pay attention to, especially when you're younger. So I can see why younger lesbians who are more masculine presenting wouldn't want to have that label, but I don't think that necessarily means they don't Look butch and therefore, in some sense, still have that butchness that people are worried is disappearing. I live in a pretty small area in Michigan and I still come across butches here so we're still around. If people are concerned about the actual term they're using to describe themselves, I'd say it's no big deal. It's simply a new way of identifying oneself for a new generation. The spirit is still there.

Reply
chris
2/22/2015 01:59:53 pm

Still Butch, still here! But also masculine-of-center, GQ, female with dapper tendencies and a pompadour. Y'all should try reading Butchontap's fb and blog. She's like ultimate butch to me right now.

Reply
BW link
2/22/2015 03:19:28 pm

Oh, I KNOW you didn't just come on here and advertise another Butch blog on MY site!!

Ha--totally kidding. ;) Tristan is awesome--go read her! And while you're at it, check out A Boy and Her Dog. I've been loving that one lately, too.

Reply
Bonnie Bush
2/22/2015 03:05:56 pm

I think it is an interesting point to contemplate and an historical term not to be forgotten as we move forward with terms of self-identification. I am old and until recently identified as 'butch', but now prefer more nob-binary terms. I suppose the real question is 'Why do we have to give it a name?'

Reply
Claudia Olivia link
2/22/2015 09:45:23 pm

High Femme here who finds butch identified women/womyn/phemayls (!) etc etc etc incredibly sexy and attractive. Please, don't die out!!
This fantastic article by Lea DeLaria I believe complements your article perfectly - and vice versa.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/07/25/a_butch_lesbian_rejects_a_non_binary_identity.html
Thank you for highlighting what I believe is an important topic.. in Australia I don't notice butch dying out as such however perhaps the 'traditional butch' is suffering somewhat as the younger baby dykes tend to more embrace the andro identity as it's more easily accepted. And that can be a really big deal for a young'un who's just coming out. Viva la Butch!

Reply
Jonathan link
3/6/2015 05:34:17 pm

Just for accuracy, that article is by Vanessa Urquhart (not Lea DeLaria) – but, yes, it's a great piece, especially the end bit:

"It's wonderful that people who feel uncomfortable with the gender they were assigned at birth are gaining strength and visibility. But, it's just as important that young people, girls and boys and genderqueers alike, can have as many examples as possible of men and women who don't conform to gender stereotypes. I like to think I'm doing my part for that by living as an aggressive, competitive, logical, and strong butch woman."

Reply
G.
2/22/2015 11:27:40 pm

I am probably one of the younger people you talked about, I'm 28. To be honest, when I was first coming out, I knew I was more masculine than most. But being butch had a negative connotation among my peers, thus causing me to have a negative view of butchs. For me, that has changed though. I actually now identify as butch and am being more involved in the butch community. I am comfortable with who I am, more so that when I was first coming out.

Reply
Michou Olivera link
2/23/2015 12:48:36 am

I've never been anything but butch, and I am proud as hell of that. Unfortunately, I feel that my passing as a guy hides my being butch, so I am quick to correct those who call me sir or he. For me, it is what it is... But I'll never be anything different. #BornButchDieButch

Reply
Shay
2/23/2015 05:56:24 am

I love that you wrote about this, as it's something we're very passionate about in our house.

I'll be 29 this weekend, so I'm the middle child generation for concepts and terminology... And I am a butch genderqueer happily shacked up with a femme transguy.

So speaking of closeted transguys masquerading as butch women, he's a pretty good example. Very, very, very butch before he came out, and now that he's comfortable and happy with himself, he turned out to be really effeminate and nelly. Like, wants to be a drag queen when he's all grown up :)

I think butches still exist, but the definition is what's changing. My youngest sister lives in Brooklyn and calls herself butch, but here where I live in rural Texas, she would be seen as high femme. I'm recognized as butch everywhere but with my older friends, who have let me know that butches don't wear eyeliner. Or tight jeans.

Here anyways butch means the old school beautiful bull dagger types who wouldn't be caught dead doing womanly things. So around that crowd, it's pointless to call myself butch because they just chuckle, even if we just got done unloading hundreds of pounds of something and we're guzzling beer to cool off. With them, I never feel butch enough for the butch club.

I think the essential concept of butch is a good one, and one that should be continuously modernized to keep up with reality. Like metrosexual men, I see no reason why a butch can't be polished and dapper and polite to their sweethearts. The negative stereotype about butches can totally be broken, but I do recognize it and understand why some avoid it still. I think it's another word that should be reclaimed.

As for gender, I feel like that's an entirely different thing. Butch can be seen as either a visual presentation (men's clothes, buzzcuts etc) or as a lifestyle manner (polite, chivalrous, mechanical) but for me anyways it's not the same as gender. I've felt other-than-female my whole life, but it wasn't until I met my partner that I started learning the words to describe myself. The idea of transitioning was electrifying and stunning and so beautiful because it meant I wasn't stuck like this. So I came out as Trans. I picked my name, I had a therapist, I went by male pronouns and it was so wonderful. And then I gradually realized that that wasn't my answer either. Being 100% male was just as bad as being 100% female. I felt stuck in an awkward body warp because I thought I had to pick a side and stick with it. Plus I was ashamed to admit that I had gotten something so important so wrong. It took many years for me to sort it out in a way that I could explain my gender concept, and now it's simple. My gender rides a pendulum that sways back and forth on a scale that rages from high femme to passing as a man. I'm old enough and happily enough to dress in the way that makes me happy that particular day, even if it was completely different front the way I was the day before.

Reply
Uncle Pam
2/23/2015 08:14:05 am

still Butch identified - Butch Dyke, actually, at age 64. Still teaching young Butches as l was taught by Butch Elders. I think we are not diminishing, but our ftm brothers are more visible, now. Masculine wimmin Are.

Reply
Nikki
2/24/2015 04:50:10 am

I identify as butch. Maybe because I'm 35 now, but "stud" seems to have replaced this word nowadays. I don't see myself that way though. To me stud sounds like a young punk kid. Anyway, I love being able to fix my car sometimes. I also cook and clean like a mofo. Best o both worlds anyone? Single here ;)

Reply
Nikki
2/26/2015 04:32:40 am

Wow...amazing ro read all these posts! I'm soo bloody butch but in london uk its not seen and I don't see it as a positive label....for me it smacks of knuckle dragging punchy fighty geezers...so not me! Can I be camp aducated gentle and physically very capable and still be butch..I don't know!! Help

Reply
Butch Wonders link
2/26/2015 05:37:22 am

Of COURSE you can! Don't let anyone else define "butch" for you.

Reply
Clay
3/9/2015 11:53:34 am

While I can't speak for young masculine DFAB people as a whole, I don't think that young butches are just assuming they are trans because they like masculine things, at least in my area. There is a lot of info out there about queer culture and people who are masculine but aren't trans OR butch. I'm for sure one of the most masculine girls at my high school, but I don't ID at butch. I think it is a limiting term in some ways---as gender is being explored more I think people open up to the idea of presenting in a lot of different ways. I used to only wear really masculine clothing, but I've learned to feel confident and good in more traditionally feminine attire.

I also think that for people who say they see butches all over it is important to remember that a lot of people that you think are butches, especially the younger ones, don't ID as such and visa versa. Rather than sticking a label on them as a butch, accept that they are part of the queer community, but let them claim identities for themselves.

Reply
Woodstock
6/10/2015 04:12:20 am

Excellent post addressing a question that has been bugging me for months, and is particularly acute in the wake of Caitlyn Jenner's very public coming out.

Where I live (DC) butches have never been valued or above the radar. This was particularly true 20 years ago when all the femmes were dating each other because everyone was too busy passing for straight so they wouldn't be fired from their white-collar/government/government-contractor jobs.

I really dislike the idea that butch is being subsumed into the trans* community. It feels very devaluing and gender-normative to me, as if the only way to be "a woman" is to present in a very classically feminine way; based on gender expression Caitlyn Jenner is "more" of a woman by simplistic standards than your average butch because at a glance she looks the way mainstream society thinks a woman "should" look).

I have many questions, not a lot of answers, but am glad to have discovered your blog.

Reply
Cai link
7/21/2015 12:28:42 am

Trans-exclusivism feminism at its worst. We assumed because we were masculine yet still female-assigned at birth, we were butch, so we hung out in lesbian circles despite not feeling “woman”. We were never theirs to be claimed in the first place. It’s because of our trans sisters we finally learned who we were, and now are claiming what i rightfully ours/

Reply
Carol
10/18/2015 08:51:28 pm

I am soooo tired of people hating labels. I LOVE Butch women...and see nothing wrong with the label.

Reply
Imparo
3/10/2017 08:11:38 pm

I think that there was a bit of a 'backlash' to the 'Ellen' episode. Let's face it- when it becomes publicly 'vogue' to be lesbian, there's bound to be resentment. Nobody cared when the lesbians were all over-weight girls; wearing dockers. But when they started seeing more and more beautiful women identifying as lesbian, they started to care a little more. Especially guys! I noticed more and more that men were becoming almost hostile toward women that looked lesbian. I saw it personally. They were sending a clear message what their hang-up was. We also saw it in lesbian shootings nationwide. Let's get honest folks- when guys feel threatened, especially around 'access to sex', they get hostile. And EVERYONE knows it!

Reply

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.


Leave a Reply.

    TWITTER
    FACEBOOK
    INSTAGRAM
    EMAIL ME
    Picture


    ​Blogs I Like

    A Butch in the Kitchen
    A Stranger in This Place
    Bookish Butch
    Butch on Tap
    Card Carrying Lesbian
    ​
    Chapstick Femme

    Effing Dykes
    Feral Librarian
    Lawyers, Dykes, and Money

    Mainely Butch
    Neutrois Nonsense
    Pretty Butch
       

    Categories (NOT up to date...  working on it)

    All
    Accessories
    Adventures
    Advice
    Bisexuality
    Blogging
    Books
    Butch Identity
    Cars
    Clothes
    Coming Out
    Community
    Dating
    Family
    Fashion
    Female Masculinity
    Fiction
    Friends
    Gaydar
    Gender
    Girlfriends
    Guest Posts
    Hair
    Health
    Humor
    Husbands
    Identity
    Interviews
    Intro
    Lgbt Community
    Lgbt Law
    Lgbt Relationships
    Lists
    Marriage
    Media
    Politics
    Polls
    Pride
    Pride Project
    Readers
    Relationships
    Religion
    Reviews
    Search Terms
    Shopping
    Silliness
    Social Change
    Ties
    Trans
    Work


    Archives

    May 2019
    February 2019
    September 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    March 2018
    November 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    April 2017
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    August 2015
    July 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014
    February 2014
    January 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    April 2013
    March 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    August 2012
    July 2012
    June 2012
    May 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011

    RSS Feed

 
  • Blog
  • Butch Store: Genderqueer Us
  • About
  • Contact