My name is eL. I am a butch, queer genderqueer (oof, that's a mouthful) and my preferred pronouns are they/them/their. I blog occasionally and tweet often, and I've guest blogged on Butch Wonders before, like I'm doing today. I recently had a fun twitter back-and-forth with BW after reading her recent blog post on butch-butch relationships. In the past, I contributed to this post and this post on the topic of butch-butch love.
I have had relationships with three people who were solidly butch-identified when we dated, plus one who felt she "looked butch on the outside, but felt femme on the inside." I have also dated femmes. Four, to be exact. I would say only one counted as a "relationship." I have also dated a few people who didn't really identify either way, and I am dating one of those fabulous people now.
So, how does it feel different to date people of varying identities? How does perception of yours elf and other people change based on who you're dating? Well, for me at this moment, there are a host of complicating factors.
To answer the initial question BW asked me ("Notice any big diffs in dating not-butch, either re: how you feel or re: how others treat you?"): Yes, I do. So here are some of the differences--the differences for me--I certainly don't speak for anyone who is not me.
When I date femmes, I feel generally more protective. I fall into a bit more of the security guard role. I suppose it helps that I am tall, broad-shouldered, and "look intimidating." Though I certainly don't *feel* intimidating much of the time. In most relationships, I have been read as "more butch" than folks I've been with based solely on my height and frame. This is fine with me, but also hilarious, as I am certainly not the butchest butch that has ever butched. I don't even drive a stick shift!
When I date butches, there seems to be more of a tradeoff. If the butch I'm dating is much smaller than me and doesn't have a Napoleon complex, I do feel like I take on a bit more of the protector or "more butch" role. If the butch holds their own (as far as acting from a place of confidence), then not so much. This really varies person-to-person. When I date non-butches or non-femmes, it varies even more. Regardless, I still feel quite butch and secure in that/my identity.
My current girlfriend is struggling a bit with my neutral pronouns. She uses them just fine, but is frustrated with what term to use to refer to me in the context of our relationship. As far as I can find, there are no gender neutral relationship terms that are equivalent in meaning and generalized understanding and seriousness to "girlfriend" or "boyfriend." Prior to dating her, I didn't really think much about what folks called me. (Most said "girlfriend," one called me her "Mister," and another called me her "Beau.")
My girlfriend and I generally get read as more "lesbian" so far than I've been read as in a bit. In the past, I think people didn't read me as lesbian as often when I dated other butches. I dated one butch, in particular, and we were often read as gay men. Otherwise, I'm not sure how I was read, only that people would assume that I wasn't with the person I was with because we were both "butch." When I dated femmes, once in a while, we were read as a straight couple.
I feel lucky in that my girlfriend is pretty darn attracted to butches, and has been. Seems to be an important part of her identity, and I dig that. If my girlfriend wasn't openly into butches, I might feel differently. Do I have to "tone down" the butch? Something like that. But, I don't. I am just unapologetically me right now, which, I'll admit can be pretty awkward at times. Butches + nursing bras = certainly not my favorite thing and has evoked much frustration and drama including exclaiming things such as, "I don't even wear bras like this! Ugh!" (I usually wear sports bras and/or the occasional binder.)
Overall, I feel more comfortable dating butches and folks somewhere in the grey area. This is due to past not-so-positive experiences dating femmes. I have had femmes judge me as "too butch," I have had femmes hit on by men in front of me and not rebuff them - I have, unfortunately, had some disappointing experiences dating femmes. I have found butches. as a whole, to be more accepting of my own butch identity. I have also found that I have stronger chemistry with lesbians / queer folks that lean more butch / masculine on the spectrum of gender.
I think the best way to not have stress regarding how you're being read is to be confident in your identity. Own who you are. Own your challenges, own your changes. Be confidently you and keep putting that message out. Stay strong, be yourself. Folks will get it.
10/26/2015 02:00:10 am
All around interesting. I'd been pondering masculinity and femininity in same sex relationships based on my own experiences lately. I am a woman who lives in the middle: not overly butch, not even close to femme... an in the middle bisexual who is a 4/5 on the Kinsey scale. One relationship, I was more masculine and acted on those roles. One we both presented in the middle and things weren't as easy/natural as I'd expect., Lastly dated a woman who was more masculine and tomboy than me. I often said, "I will not be a kept woman" when she asserted her masculine "gender roles." Anyways... I've been pondering these ideas too because I'm attracted to "tweeners" like me, but even tweeners run on a spectrum.and have tweener balance issues.
11/25/2016 11:41:17 pm
Hey love....I believe you are sporty butch androgyne femme and other rhythms.I feel that. and I feel you exactlyMutual.we all are El.great post and blog..it awesome story.thank you for sharing with us honeybear..I congratulate you on ur.blessing of giving birth.we all understand.remember thos we have a fabulously life we sporty butch femme androgyny & other RHYTHMS...WE LOVE YOU.LOL Papi chica
10/29/2015 09:33:28 pm
Thank you for your guest post. Prior to my wife, I dated butch women, but if I wore a floral embroidered button down shirt and jeans I still looked too "soft butch" for most women (I was interested in) to approach me. It's a shame, but the struggle is real.
11/10/2015 05:56:41 am
Isn't butch pregnancy and parenthood a mind-bender? It felt odd but I am super glad it happened to me, too. Folks would definitely go agog when I raised the flannel shirt to nurse her as a babe. My daughter loves having a butch mama--she says other mamas (i.e., hetero) are kind of boring in comparison.
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