Butch Wonders
  • Blog
  • Butch Store: Genderqueer Us
  • About
  • Contact

Last Night's Debate

10/4/2012

10 Comments

 
I feel like it would be virtually anti-American not to say anything about the presidential debate, but for me it hovered between depressing and irritating. 

The substance centered around giant economic plans whose conception--let alone implementation--is opaque to practically all of us.  Would most people know the difference if Obama had said Romney favored cutting $8 trillion in taxes instead of $5 trillion?  Or if Romney had said Obama planned to cut $416 billion from Medicare instead of $716 billion? 

Numbers that huge are difficult for most of us to assess unless we've got special expertise and/or gobs of free time.  Instead, we assume that the candidate we favor is mostly telling the truth, while the other guy is spinning it somehow.  Candidates vaguely reference "studies," but never go beyond that.  Are there really "six studies" debunking Obama's critique of Romney's tax plan?  At most, you might Google it (whereupon the sketchiness of Romney's citation becomes apparent).  But even when you learn that the studies were conducted with biased motives, how do you know they're not accurate?  Are you going to go read them and assess their validity?  Am I?

The debate format--with its time constraint, vague questions, unwieldy numbers, and dearth of precise follow-ups--makes it very difficult to see who's telling the truth.  If you're like me, you end up relying on trusted sources, or on your own assumptions about the candidates, or on the candidates' values as best you can discern them.  And this is where Obama could have scored big, I think--turning the topics into questions of values rather than questions of numbers.  Gay rights, women's rights, Romney's "47 percent" gaffe--these issues underscore crucial value differences between Obama and Romney.  And voters understand values; we have them, too.  And since values underpin specific economic proposals, if we only have 90 minutes I'd rather hear about values.

Instead of talking about my other reactions to the debate, which will depress you and me both, here are my reactions to the debate I wish I'd seen:
  • That Jim Lehrer is one tough dude!  Although he was a bit of a hardass with the time limits, I appreciated it, because it made things SO FAIR.
  • Saying that a plan will help the middle class is useless unless you're willing to define it (everyone thinks they're "middle class"), which is why I appreciated that the candidates agreed to a definition prior to the debate, so that everyone could be on the same page.
  • Obama really scored a zinger with that "47 percent" quip at the end.  And the way he looked right into the camera during his closing?  So intense--it gave me chills!
  • The section of the debate on the pervasiveness of racial inequality really highlighted the difference between Obama's philosophy and Romney's.  Of course they both know that America isn't "postracial!"  I feel silly for fearing that they wouldn't talk about it.
  • That new rule that both candidates are required to provide written citations on their websites the next day for everything they said in the debate the night before?  Brilliant.  And useful to me as a voter.
  • Thank goodness women's issues played such a big role.

Did you watch the debates last night, dear readers?  What did YOU think?  I'm looking forward to your comments.

Submit
10 Comments
Lyndsay
10/4/2012 03:12:26 am

I watched, I really wish Romney hadn't been allowed to be such a bully. I know e ermine is saying Obama w too subdued and didn't hit Romney hard enough. Let me just say I do wish he hadn't let Romney say he cut that 716 billion, because that cut saved the program but he let that go unanswered. I do see what Obama was doing though. Romney may have had more intensity, but he didn't actually say anything!!! He attacked Obama's policies with lies and revisions on the truth. In my opinion Obama sat back and let Romney lie on every point, run away from his own tax plan, the biggest lie I've ever heard, a man who as he points out has been in business for over 20 years knows nothing about companies getting tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas. So to all of those who say Romney won, he might have performed better, but so do athletes on steroids. Lying is the same as cheating

Reply
Lyndsay
10/4/2012 03:13:20 am

**everyone

Reply
Jill
10/4/2012 03:40:18 am

I honestly did not watch it. And to be perfectly honest I fear either of these men being the president of my residence.
I know I know, Obama says he is for gay rights. But it seemed it was all about timing, is it real?
I am all for family as Romney spouts, but that does not mean I support him either.
Really - maybe a woman should just have the job.
Why does this have to be such an evil battle? Why can't the opponents just spout the truth?

Reply
Shawna
10/4/2012 05:12:06 am

I would have liked to seen a more aggressive approach from Obama last night, including faster rebuttals and more concrete answers. But, as I thought about it later on, I feel this could possibly have been a political strategy on Obama’s part; a defense tactic which would allow Romney to drown himself in his on spew of lies. Now, these lies are all out in the open. Just sitting there, ready to be torn open by fact checkers and exposed to the media. Assuredly, the Republicans are gloating over the so-called “win” last night, but I think, and I hope, it was just enough to get them together in a cluster with the intention of drop kicking them hard in the next debate. Maybe, they will let their defenses down a little and get a little lazy if they feel they already have this election in the bag. Clearly, Romney has absolutely no foundation to stand on. His mathematically impossible plan is very vague on its details or even its name...if there is one. Obviously, as with most Republicans, he hopes to win this election with money instead of facts or even his so-called “plan”. Also, I agree with Lyndsay, Romney did come off as such a bully. A pompous ass, as I have called him. Obama will play on such arrogance and show the American people that we need brains running the country, not brawn. Obama does know how to talk to the American people, he knows the answers we want on the issues that matter most. I’m confident Obama will shine on the next round and shut Romney down with facts, truth and the ability to actually plan.

Reply
Deborah Tanner
10/4/2012 08:21:08 am

I was at work and only got to catch a few moments of the debate here and there....I was not impressed with what I did get to see.
I was impressed with the canidate on the radio for the state of Ky that said he was not for same sex marrage and he was for right to life and he wanted our vote.
I can say this.....at least he is an honest MF. That I wont be voting for. Keeping his male ego and superiority over women in check. Patting his hard right on the back. Makes me want to choke.
We need someone to stand for what is dear to so many and stand proud for gay rights and for freedom of choice. They might be suprised how many stand with them.

Reply
dee
10/4/2012 10:23:12 pm

I did not watch. I live in a battleground state - and have been "privileged" to be inundated by both campaigns.

Historically I find the debate format stilted and frustrating. The moderators rarely challenge candidates on fact. The candidates rarely answer the question asked but respond with a talking point near the subject. The candidates also rarely respond to the remarks their opponent has just made. In short, the presidential debates don't actually resemble at all debates.

Plus, for me the choice in this election is clear.

Reply
Ed link
10/5/2012 08:11:14 pm

I watched highlights on Huffpost because I work second shift at a hospital. For me...God...For one thing, I couldn't watch it as an "undecided" I haven't been that, politically, since I was twelve. (Steelworkers Union/ FDR Democrats growing up, then "coming of age" in Madison during the Sanctuary Movement, Take Back The Night, and soooo much else, during the Reagan years.)

I watched and I kept flashing back to Obama'a behavior right after the 2010 elections. The Tea Party was still new, still riding high. (Has anyone else noticed how quiet they have been lately? No huge rallies, no "take no prisoners" crap, they have even backed off their "pledge" to purge the Republican Party of RINO's. I have a theory on that...)

House Speaker Boehner was walking all over him. Yes, I wanted the president to be adult, to be rational in the face of such mind-warping political stupidity, such unabashed neo-segregationist hate and star-spangled misogyny.

I wanted him to be The Grown-up In The Room. But he could have accomplished that without reducing himself to an area throw. I expected him to fucking FIGHT BACK!

I was so angry at him the whole time that god-forsaken debt dog and pony show dragged on. I wasn't the only one. And then....he started pushing back...he started standing up for us again! Huzza!

But at the debate, it was like he had reverted to the post-10 election Obama. NO! This is NOT the time to do that! Romney said "Planned Parenthood, we'll have to get rid of that." I BELIEVE HIM! He has given us no reason to think it was just radical bluster to appease "The Base"

Romney sure as hell noticed it. He's starting to crack wise like he's got the whole thing sewn up. I personally think that's a big mistake, there will be other debates, and he isn't preaching to a bunch of dyed-in-the-wool bigots and wingnuts like he was during the primaries.

There is nothing that will change my mind about voting for the president, Mitt Romney is but the latest manifestation of the flaming, bat-shit crazy "Republican Politics" that has been attacking our democracy for the last thirty years.

But I'd like to be able to do it with a smile on my face.

Reply
Try
10/6/2012 09:02:57 am

I didn't watch, mainly because I'm not planning on voting. There are a few reasons for this. One is that I don't think it matters who the president of the United States is. I think the people who influence what goes on in global politics are the people who control huge corporations. They probably make up less than 1% of the worlds population, yet they control 90% of its resources. We don't get to Elect them, ha ha. I also think our votes literally don't count. The elect oral college does not allow for a popular vote victory. Not in any direct way, anyhow. Lastly, I don't feel that the two candidates are different in any deeply significant way. Our government needs fundamental change at it's very deepest roots. Neither one of the candidates has ever mentioned doing anything in this direction.

Reply
dee
10/6/2012 10:05:07 am

Try - I couldn't disagree more - while agreeing with you on some fundamental points. I will agree that corporations have tremendous influence on government and politics. HOWEVER, the president does control nominations to the courts - and there are vast differences in the philosophies of the two candidates with regard to the judiciary.

Also, I think it is important to decide whether our country is going to carry a huge debt burden because of increasingly aggressive military positions globally or because we are educating/feeding & providing health care to our population. The initiatives of the executive determine our path.

Reply
Butch Wonders link
10/12/2012 12:43:47 pm

@ Dee--I completely agree. @Try--it makes me sad that you wouldn't vote! After all, who makes the regulations that determine whether corporations CAN control the world??


Your comment will be posted after it is approved.


Leave a Reply.

    TWITTER
    FACEBOOK
    INSTAGRAM
    EMAIL ME
    Picture


    ​Blogs I Like

    A Butch in the Kitchen
    A Stranger in This Place
    Bookish Butch
    Butch on Tap
    Card Carrying Lesbian
    ​
    Chapstick Femme

    Effing Dykes
    Feral Librarian
    Lawyers, Dykes, and Money

    Mainely Butch
    Neutrois Nonsense
    Pretty Butch
       

    Categories (NOT up to date...  working on it)

    All
    Accessories
    Adventures
    Advice
    Bisexuality
    Blogging
    Books
    Butch Identity
    Cars
    Clothes
    Coming Out
    Community
    Dating
    Family
    Fashion
    Female Masculinity
    Fiction
    Friends
    Gaydar
    Gender
    Girlfriends
    Guest Posts
    Hair
    Health
    Humor
    Husbands
    Identity
    Interviews
    Intro
    Lgbt Community
    Lgbt Law
    Lgbt Relationships
    Lists
    Marriage
    Media
    Politics
    Polls
    Pride
    Pride Project
    Readers
    Relationships
    Religion
    Reviews
    Search Terms
    Shopping
    Silliness
    Social Change
    Ties
    Trans
    Work


    Archives

    May 2019
    February 2019
    September 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    March 2018
    November 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    April 2017
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    August 2015
    July 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014
    February 2014
    January 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    April 2013
    March 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    August 2012
    July 2012
    June 2012
    May 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011

    RSS Feed

 
  • Blog
  • Butch Store: Genderqueer Us
  • About
  • Contact