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The popularity of women like Rachel Maddow and Ellen Degeneres is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it’s wonderful to see non-gender-normative women in the mainstream limelight. But on the other, it may give people (think: your parents; your grandparents) the impression that gender deviance means short hair and a ladies’ pant suit. “Even Ellen wears make-up,” they might say, as if Ellen occupies the hinterlands of gender presentation. (The implication being: “So why do YOU have to look like a man?”) By comparison to the mainstream media’s watered-down version of “butch,” in-the-flesh lesbians can look extreme just by donning a suit vest and a tie--especially if you're the only butch someone knows.  Yes, I love Ellen and think she has done a ton for lesbians. But if I get married again, you can bet your cuff links I won't be caught dead in something that flowy! What do you think, dear BW readers? Is the popularity of non-completely-gender-conforming women in mainstream media a good thing or a bad thing? What would you like to see changed in the media's presentation of butch/dyke/boi types?
23 Comments
I think it makes it a little harder for me because my parents and some friends will be the first to say " Ellen is a butch lesbian and she wears womens clothes" I could just scream! I came out in my late 20's I was very girly but after I told everyone off went my hair and every thing else girly meaning clothes, make-up and so on. So I'm always hearing you can still be a lesbian and look like a girl cause ellen does...lol 9/12/2011 05:11:50 pm
Its a freakin great thing! Although Ellen's clothes are sometimes too shiny or flowy, the majority of her fashion is pretty awesome. I mean, she made if ok for all us boiz to wear sneakers way past our thirties, and with suits no less!! And the first time I saw Rachel Maddow on TV I couldn't get enough of her! I couldnt decide if I wanted to marry her or be her best friend! TV always portrays a very shiny and cleaned up version of all kinds of people, we are just one of the many groups TV distills down, but I think any visibility is better than none. Just think how positively it affects the 12 yr old who sees a tomboy likeselves on TV!
kim
9/12/2011 05:18:34 pm
Shae, I sooo agree with you!
Lyndsay
9/12/2011 05:34:58 pm
I think it's at least going in the right direction. Can you imagine having out lesbians on TV 10 or 15 years ago? I'm sure its beacause they are both very socially accepted looking that people can pat themselves on the back for liking them, but I'm sure in another few years a less watered down version of butch lesbians will be accepted
Bugg
9/12/2011 06:46:23 pm
Well I for one do not expect TV people to pave the way for me in some special way. But I am grateful when they do help. For example I was thrilled when Ellen "came out," because it might make a slight difference in mainstream perspectives to see that someone so funny and so fun was playing for the other team. In fact it wasn't long after that, that I came out to a family member... a first step in a long walk of coming out. I thank Ellen for what she did there, and I thank Ani diFranco for making dyke popular, at the time that I needed it. I thank everyone for whatever they can and have done for us. But getting into dictating how public figures and celebrities should act so as best to benefit me? That is just out of the question. I mean, if I were a notable personality on TV, would I put my career on hold to take suggestions on how to puppet myself most appropriately for the cause? I certainly hope that I wouldn't.
Tigertale
9/13/2011 12:58:52 am
I believe it should not matter how you dress or which hairstyle you choose. It is difficult enough to live a lesbian life. Do what is YOU! We are all here to express ourselves through individuality whether that means looking cliche or femming it up. Just be yourself!
I've never considered Ellen butch--funny, isnt it, the way we interpret gender? I've always thought of her as quite androgynous. Rachel Maddow I think of as extremely butch, but that's because I've seen pics of her on her motorcycle in her non-public life, and she seems quite butch to me in that sense. 9/13/2011 05:43:36 am
It *is* interesting the way we interpret gender. I remember when I was a kid, totally unaware of lesbian culture, I thought Ellen was SO awesome because she seemed "normal," unlike all the other women on television. 9/13/2011 07:13:05 am
I completely see your point. It is a double edged sword, but I wouldn't change what they've done for the community as a whole for anything. I'm so tired of society trying to dictate what others should look like, how they should dress, behave, etc. If everyone just worried about their own fashion/fashion faux pas/etc, this world would be a much better place. I don't conform to any kind of society norm. I'm a fem, although I don't dress like a girlie girl. I don't always wear make up, and doing my hair? Forget about it. lol I love my butches, butch, but I accept everyone just the way they are. Maybe we can all change just one mind until the we get the whole world caught up. ;)
Rev. Laureen
9/13/2011 07:30:27 am
I grant you that Ellen's outfit was flowy. But it was more Ren Faire guy flowy instead of butch trying to appear femme to suit the occasion.
chris
9/13/2011 08:10:52 am
There's butch, then there is Butch. I think of Butch as Old School Butches; open doors for their femmes, wear nicely tailored clothes, only shop in the men's, etc. The other butch generally is a matter of perception (usually by non-GBLTQ people. I have a bias, being an old school butch, but I am also of the open that Butch is a lot like Dyke, a matter open to your own personal interpretation I haven't had any comments made to me as far as being butch and wearing more girly clothes because Ellen does. I did wear dress pants, white dress shirt and a blue sweater vest with a tie to my grandma's wedding and she did not approve saying, "it made me look like a boy." Then when I told my mom what she said (who is still not fully accepting of my being a lesbian or dressing in men's clothes) said I should have worn pretty clothes for my grandma. I told her I don't wear those types of clothes so why would I for grandma's wedding? To which she didn't respond. I also told my grandma that I was comfortable and that was what was important to me.
Janelle
9/13/2011 04:39:26 pm
I'm an Asian who identifies as butch. I think there are some Asian singers/bands that venture into the gender non-conforming extremes more than say, Ellen Degeneres. Some examples include China's Super Girl winner Li Yu Chun, Taiwan's Zhang Yun Jing as well as a girlband consisting of 5 girls whose appearance would make them seem more like a boyband instead. Try searching them on google image if you're interested :) I think that, because of these singers/bands that have emerged in recent years, more Asian butches are able to express themselves in terms of appearance comfortably compared to say, 10 or 15 years ago. But it's still not easy to come out because, while people accept your androgynous/masculine appearance, homosexuality is still pretty much taboo on this side of the continent.
Janelle
9/13/2011 04:41:16 pm
oh silly me forgot the mention the name of the girlband. They're called Misster.
Morgain
9/13/2011 11:25:11 pm
Rev. Laureen may have just coined a new term: Ren. Faire Butch! :)
Ellen and Rachel Maddow and movies like The Kids Are All Right have certainly opened doors for "butchier" women to step into the media, even if they only show a tiny sliver of what is possible for a lesbian to look like. I speak as an out, butch-identified actor in LA, and I can tell you that I struggle with the positive and negative impacts of this image every day -- the upside is, of course, that I wouldn't even be in LA if I didn't see those women strutting their suits and sneakers.
Cat
9/15/2011 07:02:36 pm
I still remember the first time I saw Ellen on TV. She was doing stand up, "talking to God". I was busting a gut laughing. My Mom walked in and announced, "She's a Dyke", and stormed off. I couldn't have cared less (pre realization of my OWN dykeness) Today, Mom doesn't recall the incident, because she really "Likes" Ellen. And yes, she wishes I looked more like her. Ellen has thrown us years ahead in our struggle for acceptance. It's not perfect, but I think the "public" is coming around. However...I think movies such as "The kids are alright" give the public the wrong image. It was a great movie and funny. Unfortunately the affair with the guy, as meaningless as it was, was a bit of a jab in the ribs. And sent the wrong message. No, All leasbians do NOT secretly want a little bit of d*ck! Very disheartening. Hollywood just can't seem to make a decent, smart or real lesbian movie? I sometimes think maybe it's actually Hollywood, holding us back? 9/18/2011 02:06:53 pm
I believe that Ellen and Rachel are the Hollywood Butches that we can respect. They are somewhat governed by their producers as to how they appear I am sure. I've seen Rachel in other shows where she is totally relaxed, in regular clothes and she's definitely Butch. They are doing the best they can for us, and we have to support them. Perhaps they don't represent what we all think of as "real" Butch apprearances, but who are we each to say what is "real" and what is not? It's a world of "just be me" nowadays, and we all need to appreciate that we are even represented as well as we are in the meida by these two awesome Butches! I say to them ROCK ON!!! ~MainelyButch
Jen
9/24/2011 05:44:33 am
I'm old enough to remember when k d lang had to girl it up a wee bit too. She never really pulled it off then either. It came off as punky-country. You tube "Calgary Olympics closing ceremonies kd lang" to see what I'm talking about and imagine a teenage tom boy sighing at her idol...
jen
9/24/2011 05:52:54 am
Crap! That video is gone! Try kd lang and the reclines or kd lang sings jingle bell rock
To answer your questions, yes - I think the growing popularity of non-gender-conforming women is a good thing. When it comes right down to it, visibility is visibility, even if it's not an exact reflection.
T
1/30/2021 12:37:46 pm
Here through an image search result...ironically, the same thing is happening ten years later, with actresses like Ruby Rose having modeling contracts with makeup brands and still acting the poser and claiming to represent butchness. They’re “safe” butchness for straight girls to feel secure having little “girlcrushes” on but not actually butch, lol. It gets old. Your comment will be posted after it is approved.
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