Straight Women + Butches = Complications^10

6/23/2011

Ah, straight girls... Nearly all of my butch friends have an anecdote or two about dating straight women, trying to date straight women, or straight women trying to date *them*. So when I received the following [edited] email from a BW reader, I decided it was time for an entry about the topic:

Hey there. I am really bad at telling if a girl is straight or gay. I've hung out with this girl a few times and I want to ask her out. She doesn't have a boyfriend. Should I try to date her if she's straight?

LOTS of complications packed into that email, no? In no particular order, here is my (admittedly scant) wisdom on straight women and butches:

If she's actually straight, you're not going to "turn" her. If you identify as lesbian, think about this: is a really hot bio-man going to suddenly turn you straight? No. (Okay, except for maybe Jake Gyllenhall, and even then, only for a night.) And wouldn't you think that a guy who presumed that he could turn you was an arrogant arse? See what I mean? Respect straight women's sexuality. That said...
Sometimes, "straight" women are still figuring things out. After all, I was a "straight" woman once. So was my DGF. So was my buddy C. Just because she's straight now doesn't mean she'll still be straight in six months. And THAT said, tread lightly because:
It generally sucks to be someone's experiment. You're trying to build a relationship with her and SHE'S still trying to figure out whether she wants to go back to her ex-boyfriend? Yuck. Who needs that kind of pressure? And it doesn't feel particularly good when they go back to guys, either, saying that they decided they think of you as "more of a friend." Do you really want to be someone's coming out confidante, experiment, and lover? (The correct answer is: NO.)
Straight women flirt with butches. I don't know why it is, but many straight women flirt with butches a LOT. It's like we're "safe" recipients of flirtatious adoration. Then if we ever try to make a move, they can suddenly be like: "Oh no--I'm straight, you know that!" I have a few straight friends who will hug me, hang on me, and tell me I smell good, look hot, etc. But I guarantee that if I ever DID anything, they'd flip. This really, really sucks if you're attracted to any of them. (I, personally, feel lucky that 99% of the time, I am attracted to other butchy types, because they tend to be more obviously "out.")
There is a difference between bisexual women and straight women who are "experimenting." I know more than one lesbian who says she won't date bisexual women. This strikes me as silly. If someone has a track record of dating men AND women and identifies as bi, she's not "experimenting;" she's genuinely bisexual. (If she's never dated a woman, though... tread lightly.) Yeah, I know it might be a little mind-boggling to those of us who are 0-1's or 5-6's on the Kinsey Scale, but some people truly don't care about their partner's gender. They are not "undecided."

I cannot, however, speak to is how straight women respond to dating trans men. I know a handful of trans men-straight women couples who seem to be dating without incident. If any readers want to speak to this (or anything else I've left out), please comment!

26 Comments

sherry

6/23/2011 10:33:34 am

hey if you just want a piece of ass and no strings attached then they are good for that

Briellen

6/24/2011 01:28:04 pm

Just because someone isn't easily identifiable doesn't mean they're straight, so I definitely think that you need to be careful as in don't just walk up to her and say "hey you're hot let's go out" but definitely go for it if you really like her (ask her things only a gay lady would know ;]).

I am presentable as straight but most of my friends think tell me that I'm androgynous. This poses a problem, especially when alchohol is involved and I'm hanging out with my gorgeous best friend. I would never let anything happen because I fully agree that you don't want to be anyone's experiment (if you REALLY like her), I've been there and it wasn't fun. Incidentally the girl who "wouldn't date other girls, only me" who I thought I could "turn" ( I was young and naiive) is now married with a child, perfectly straight, and although she continues to say we'll always have something special I know she just 'kissed a girl and liked it'.

DeAnn

6/28/2011 04:19:09 pm

The straight girl giggle... I HATE that. I am all too aware of the dangers of a straight girl. NEVER never underestimate their power over a bio. The boi ego gets in the way... errgg....

Natasha

6/17/2015 06:07:12 am

I'm sorry, i didn't get what you wrote. Can you explain?

6/17/2015 06:08:54 am

I'm sorry, can you explain what you wanted to say? I'm not a native English speaker. Thanks

Geblibr link

11/20/2011 10:49:36 pm

It seems to me like there's a great deal of adversity towards the notion of a woman who would consider herself butch, and yet would be straight.

Mary link

5/14/2012 12:24:21 am

Some very good remarks on the huge difference existing between butches and bisexual girls. One of my friend had an experience with a bisexual woman. It hurts. Really.

Lisa

12/2/2012 02:43:31 pm

If a straight woman is straight, you are most likely an experiment, HOWEVER there are occasions where normally they do not dig women but you happen to trip their trigger. It DOES happen.

"Bisexual" is NOT code for "flaky", "greedy and loose", "experimenting", "must have one of each", or "seeking a time killer until I can win back my ex-boyfriend". It means they are capable of sex/romance/love/relationship/attraction to either. Binary notions aside, some like a particular energy or personality type, but the package it comes in doesn't matter. I for one am not attracted to feminine women (though I won't turn one down if I feel something for her), but love butch women.

If anyone you are seeing, regardless of orientation, goes back to their ex, regardless of gender, it is because they used you as "stepping stone" and would have used anyone as "stepping stone", but you were handy. I guarantee it is nothing to do with whether you are lesbian and they are bisexual or whatever.

I have had very painful experiences with both men and women. People can just be mean to each other, and sometimes things just don't work.

Lee

3/20/2013 04:29:30 am

"If a straight woman is straight, you are most likely an experiment, HOWEVER there are occasions where normally they do not dig women but you happen to trip their trigger. It DOES happen."

OMG! I am going through the same thing with my neighbor. I think I triggered something in her. A couple of weeks ago we went out for lunch and returned to her place. During our conversation, which the topic was about sex, she stopped me and told me I had to go. I asked her why, she told me because I am with my partner.
I still talk to her but planning to go no further than friends.

Marie

6/15/2019 02:16:33 am

Well, that must have hurt. I cringed when i read it. I went to a straight country western bar a few wks ago. They had a band and people were dancing. I rarely go to bars., but i went with a friend. So i was sitting at the bar watching the people dance and here comes this kool looking Butch dancing all by herself. I kept watching her. Now, i am older, past 40, and have not been with a woman OR a man in many yrs. I do consider myself bisexual. Although when i was in my mid 20's i was totally gay for 5 yrs. So anyway, i'm sitting at the bar sipping my drink and the more i watched "her" dance the more mesmerized i got. I couldn't take my eyes away. I said to myself "better not let this one get away!" So i jumped up and went on the dance floor and started dancing with her. She took my arm a few times and twirled me around. I could feel the scratchyness of her wool shirt and i super liked it. After the music was over i turned to go back to my seat. She reached out her arm and grabbed my hand. I reached out too instinctively when i saw her reach. So we held hands for maybe a few seconds. I went back to my seat and later went home. I forgot to add that before i left i found her outside smoking and i handed her a note with my ph number that said call me. So at home i thought about her the whole wk. Next time i went there i was dressed real hot. Tight black skinny pants, red top, and leoperd scarf around my neck and my hair piled high up on my head. I saw her dancing with some women. I sat in the chair sipping my drink. The band was outside this time. After they danced and she walked by me i said hi and she said hi. She went to the bar to get her drink and she came BACK to near where i was - just 4 ft away from me. She was talking to two people. I got up and went next to her and said, "wanna dance later?" She goes, "Maybe" and said she was tired and might go home early. Well, she didn't look tired dancing with that other girl. I didn't say anything. I just handed her a note and she took it and held it to her chest. I then simply walked away and went home. I was not going to stick around for a "maybe". Now, couldn't she have said she was with someone if she wanted to get rid of me? Why say maybe? The note just said i had fun dancing with her and was looking for a "dance partner" and i thought she was a very good dancer. I said she was kool. I also said i missed dancing. Nothing real personal. She never called or texted or emailed. Just silence! Is she interested or not? Why grab my hand? I am Assuming she's butch/gay. She sure looks it. If she wasn't she should have told me. Should i give up? Or wait and see if SHE asks ME to dance? I think i need to stop chasing her. Did i scare her away? I plan on staying away now for 3 wks and then go back, but i won't ever go up to her again. I will wait and see if she asks me to dance. If not, then it means she's not interested. Buy why grab my hand after dancing?

12/18/2012 07:03:05 am

I have been talking about this topic and asking around for insight, but no one else seems to be talking about it. What is the attraction to straight women over femmes? Is it the challenge? The extra ego boost? A way to circumvent committment issues? Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

6/15/2019 02:23:10 am

I forgot to say that i am bi sexual. When i was in my mid 20's i was gay for 5 yrs. I have not been with a man in over 20 yrs. Now in my older age i am fantacizing about women again. I don't want men anymore.

hmmm

3/4/2013 03:35:20 pm

A few years back a friend of mine told me she was gay and said that she liked me. I was flattered and we flirted but not more then that. that was the first time anyone has forwardly told me they liked me. since I was just in highschool at the time and a pretty shy person. She showed me how to flirt, I had nothing to be afraid of because I knew she liked me for who I was. It was great to have her as a friend but I knew right away that I was straight and had to let her know. Now recently a few years later I have a bad habit of flirting in the same way I flirted with her, with my straight friends when we go to shows and to the club. example - feeling up my friends leg,waist. lol. It gives me a weird ego boost. I'm really shy around guys and don't really know how to flirt with guys. But yet I know forsure that I'm straight because it just doesn't feel right with a girl. the romance isn't there for me with a girl I think. what is everyones opinion on that? because when I was in the club I asked my friend if she was gay and she automatically said bi but I think she was just saying that to see if I would say that I am gay. But I'm not. I just like flirting with girls bc you can't hit on a guy like that because it's against the social norm unless your already dating or already into eachother.

TheTruth

4/15/2013 05:32:35 am

even straight women are turning gay nowadays, go figure.

amberfords

5/3/2013 12:57:47 pm

OK so happy I found this site. I am straight an married yet married to a Guy 15 yrs my senior so needless to say the sex life is near to non existing. I find butch women attractive an would like one as a long term friend who accept my situation. I need excitement . Is this wrong to want a butch friend for an ongoing friendship. Knowing beforehand what I want her to do with me. How do I approach situation I'd be willing to be honest. He'll I want a friend to laugh joke talk to maybe cook dinner for viceversa. Share life experience with. But most importantly I want her to blank my blank till I pass out into a narcaleptic coma since my senior citizen doesnt.

Robin

11/2/2015 07:31:02 pm

Are you still out there ? Love to talk to you .. Same life style ..

Tough Love

7/6/2013 02:48:30 am

I know that I am a little late for this topic, but I was compelled to write even at risk of appearing sanctimonious, because I am not sure if anyone can stress the dangers of unrequited love enough.

If I may cite pop culture there is a Sex in the City episode that frames this scenario nicely. In it, a spurned cutie pie Charlotte decides that she enjoys the company of lesbians because she feels safe in their presence and because she feels "a very power part of [her] connects to the female spirit."

Of course for the sake of the episode there is a lesbian who is definitely interested in her, however no one in this circle knows if Charlotte is gay or straight and most are too polite to ask (or don't want to know).

Finally the alpha pack leader flat out asks her. Charlotte feels bad and launches into the '"while sexually I feel that I am straight" but I really LIKE you all' spiel, the leader is not impressed. I would be at a loss to rephrase it any better than she, so here is the quote:

"Sweetheart that's all very nice but if you're not gonna eat pussy, you're not a dyke."

That sums this up nicely I think.

Sometimes I (the straight girl) may appear to be one of you, but I am not. Don't be fooled, or tricked into thinking I could be with the right persuasion either. Sorry to say, but a lesbian pursuing a straight chick is as futile a pursuit as if it would be if I were to chase a gay man. No good will come of it, and there will be nothing but hurt feelings and resentment as a result.

I understand often times the wisdom "there are other fish in the sea" really doesn't apply to LBGT community. Many of these folk exist in more of a fish bowl and have very LIMITED options.

I was in a different fish bowl (long boring story) that precluded me from any action for many years, and I occasionally made the mistake of seeking unsuitable partners... because we all LIE to ourselves and say sometimes any partner is better than NO partner.

It is NOT true. I don't care who you are, you are not the exception. No matter how hard you try YOU are NOT going to be the ONE that turns someone, whether that turning is in orientation, or even just a second glance when the object of your affection is not interested.

Sorry for the cliches but I have to say it: Find someone who loves you for you, every part of you and whom you can love. Whether you are Gay Straight Bi Trans Dom Sub Switch or any other of the countless variations, whatever you find yourself being, be it and find someone who loves you for it (unless you are "A." In that case I guess you really don't have to do much of anything.)

You deserve nothing less.

Laura

1/3/2014 08:48:57 pm

I can't really explain it, but I've discovered something strange about myself; although I am thoroughly attracted to men, I am EQUALLY attracted to masculine women. I don't know why, but I get the same emotional fulfillment (e.g. butterflies, excitement) and sexual fulfillment (well, you know what that is) from "butch" women and men. I honestly cannot explain it. I suppose you could call it the Shane McCutcheon phenomenon.

Shay

1/17/2016 07:07:53 pm

I am so happy to see that I am not the only one who feels this way. Since the first time I laid eyes on Shane from the show the "L" word, I have been trying to understand the rationality behind my attraction for both men and "butch" women. Although I absolutely love everything about a sexy ass man, there is something to be said about a "butch" female who too appears to portray those same qualities. Not sure why this is, but I am glad to know that I am not the only one.

6/15/2019 02:25:55 am

Me too. I am SO attracted to very butch women. And i remember as a child i had a crush on Peter Pan/Mary Martian and in 4th grade i had a crush on my female teacher. But i am Bi, but now leaning more towards women.

sisipho link

7/12/2014 03:46:35 am

i'm inlv wth a straight gal nd i lv her vry mch bt i told ma self tht its tim for me to move on bt in ma heart there's a plac 4 her. Am a butch les.

Seriously

9/2/2014 03:21:48 pm

It is getting difficult for us straight guys trying to meet a good woman nowadays which i can certainly see why.

10/5/2014 01:21:13 am

I'm kind of the straight in question. I met a butch girl in class at school and we became great friends, and she has zero interest in me as anything but a friend, we just love each other and laugh and hang out. But hanging out with her, I've had some of her friends be more flirtatious with me. There is one girl, who is also total butch, who has been so kind to me and friendly and sweet, that if she was a guy, I am pretty sure we would have hooked up by now. And, for whatever reason, I know that if I were going to experiment, I would go in for the Tomboy type. There is something about gender-bending that is kind of a turn on for me. How that has to do with normative sex roles, I don't know. But I'm not trying to lead her on, we do have some chemistry, and I really don't envision being sexual with another woman, it is flattering though, when someone who is kind of sexy is obviously interested in you. I don't think I could really give her anything she wants past experimenting, and I can see where that could just screw up a good friendship.

...

10/20/2014 04:44:38 pm

I'm the complicated straight girl, everyone should stay away from.I'm attracted,intrigued, interested ( so many descriptive verbs could be inserted) to a butch. She is a friend, but when I first met her,I had the nervous, electric gut feeling. It threw me off. I love males.I don't see myself with a female.However, I envision myself with this person. We are living abroad in a semi rural remote area. We are experiencing the same emotions when it comes to adapting and living in another culture. She is my emotional support and I try to convince myself that's why I am attracted to her. BUT when she slightly touches me my insides flip, rotate& somersault at the same time. I think she is attracted as well. I can tell when males are into me, I figure it's no different.She is def treading lightly or she is just assumed by this situation. She hints things, flirty touches but has always said when it comes to straight females, they have to make the first move. Idk, I don't want to. I like it when men chase, call me traditional. Straight women are complicated but it's not our fault , sometimes things happen out of our control-

Am I or Am I Not?

4/7/2015 05:10:53 am

Am I or Am I Not????

Ok let’s star my story off
My boyfriend and I were constantly fighting with one another, because I found out he was sleeping with one of his Co-Workers, and to add insult to injury he lied constantly about the affair even with the undisputable proof! As if that didn’t hurt right? Keep in mind, for me it hurt oh so much because we are high school sweet hearts from age 15 I fell in love with him and knew he’d be the man id marry one day…and so he was. Almost 6 years and 2 kids and a recent marriage later I find out all these things about him and it hurt to my core! Not the first time he’s cheated by the way, but my own dumb fault forever believing he’d change. But anyways on with the story after all the infidelity I found comfort in a Co-Worker of my own…yeah yeah yeah I know… never mix business with pleasure. And I didn’t do it at all to hurt him or even to get back at him, I guess I was hurting so much that I needed someone to occupy my time. And she knew that from the beginning. She was in a relationship and I was in the process of getting my marriage annulled and she and her fem girlfriend were going through their rough patch. We ended up falling for one another. She constantly accused me of wanting him back, and parts of me did. But this relationship with her got so intense SEXUALLY and EMOTIONALLY that I found myself falling in love with her. We both knew our relationship was moving really fast, but at the time we didn’t care. She always told me how in love she was with me and me her. But at some point she started to question whether or not I was going through a phase or did I truly ever love her. She questioned it so much she started making me feel as though I had to question it also…so I did. But deep down inside for months I felt like did really love her I loved having sex with her and being with her all day every day, the kids got involved and so I thought our life together was moving forward. And then my Ex-boyfriend and I were still living together and started to rekindle our relationship dumb of me but true and now I’m in this place of my life were I don’t know if I’m gay or straight or Bi or what?!! This maybe a little bit too much info but whenever we(my boyfriend and I) have sex I find myself crying and rolling my eyes while in the mist of doing the deed, and at the end I do not find myself sexually satisfied anymore. Thus the question am I or am I not gay, straight or bi-sexual?

Truth

9/30/2016 07:43:46 am

Well many women nowadays are Not getting anymore attention from their husbands and boyfriends which will certainly explain why many Straight women will go with a Gay or Bi women now more than ever. However there are many of us Good Straight men out there that would really know how to treat a Good woman with a lot of Love and Respect if we could only meet a Good one for us.

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Straight Women + Butches = Complications^10

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