Butch Wonders
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Should I Tie One On? Help!

5/11/2011

8 Comments

 
I met an awesome, youngish scholar today who's (sort of) in my academic field.  We got to talking about the job interview process, and she mentioned that she has a bunch of butchy lesbian friends who were on the fence about wearing a tie to their interviews.  And if no tie, whether to wear a suit jacket.

In the end, her friends didn't wear ties.  They didn't want people to think they were male-identified (since they're not), nor did they want to be perceived as "too aggressive" (what?!).  Sure, there's a whole "angry butch lesbian" stereotype out there, but do people really subscribe to it?

Apparently so.

This person told me, "Men's suit jackets on women are perceived as aggressive."  AND, because of increased trans-visibility--a wonderful thing, definitely--but in progressive circles, women with "male" fashion markers are increasingly assumed to want to be men.  Not in the butch-lesbians-have-penis-envy sense, but in the I'm-taking-testosterone-and-have-a-double-masectomy-scheduled sense.

Wow.  I'm fine with people who meet me thinking I'm trans, I guess (I'm not, but who cares?).  But aggressive?  Angry?

So what do I do in a couple years when I go on the job market?  What have YOU, dear new readers, done?  I'd love to get your advice.
8 Comments
bee listy link
5/11/2011 02:48:46 pm

Honestly, I have always worn a suit jacket to job interviews, but I have never worn a tie. It hadn't occurred to me that wearing a tie to a job interview might make the interviewer think I am trans-identified. I should ask my sweetie about their last job interview-- I know they wore a suit, but I don't know about the tie.

I think that I will likely wear a bow tie for my next interview (which is hopefully a year or two away-- I'm more or less happy in my current position) because it represents me honestly.

My legal first name is the name I go by, and it is definitely feminine. I don't get read as trans ever ever ever.

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Butch Wonders link
5/11/2011 03:56:10 pm

Very interesting, bee listy--thanks for the comment. Yeah, I think the fact that I go by my (rather feminine) first name makes a big difference.

I'll be interested in what your sweetie (who I'm assuming is butch-ish?) thinks about the ties-to-job-interview issue.

For me, I guess the more I think about it, the more I don't really care if people think I'm trans. But the "aggressive" thing really does bother me...

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Kyle link
5/12/2011 08:25:25 am

Good question. I'd never considered someone reading tie wearing as trans particularly, as butch/dyke quite possibly.

I haven't decided on tie vs. dress shirt without tie yet. I'm also in a quandary about packing vs. not packing for interviews. I haven't been concerned about being read as a queer for a long time, but packing is another order of deviance.

I think we all should dress in the way that makes us feel the most confident and comfortable, because that's how we want to come across in the interview.

I guess the 'aggressive' label may be dependent on the area you live in. I don't think I'd get pinned with aggressive around here, masculine certainly, but that's not a huge deal in most of the places I'd try to get work (software development).

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Butch Wonders link
5/16/2011 01:39:02 pm

Thanks, Kyle--the packing question is interesting. I've never had a desire to pack, so it's never come up as an issue for me. But I can imagine that if you felt a lot more confident while packing... well, that would be tough, since you want to be confident in an interview.

Do you tend to get read as male or as female? Do they think you're a butch lesbian? A gay guy? If it's the latter, it's hard for me to think of a good reason not to pack. Do you go by "Kyle" when you apply for jobs? I'm guessing that would matter as well.

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Justa Notha link
5/19/2011 08:00:35 am

Hi and welcome! You're off to a great start, and I really enjoyed what I've read so far! (I see some of the bois have found you already. If you haven't checked out Bee Listy's site yet--she really does rock the bow-tie)

Isn't concern over being seen as too aggressive something every woman needs to grapple with in the workforce? From butches with ties to power femmes (butch-femmes?) like Hillary Clinton, any time a woman presents with strength there's the possibility that others will be intimated by her.
I liked your suggestion that people dress how they feel comfortable: if you're the type of person who's going to want to wear a tie to work every day, it's probably a good thing to know whether your boss is going to be okay with that before you get the job.

Anyways, to anwer your question about long, involved posts less frequent post--versus frequent short ones--I'm always in favor of length and breadth;-) 
  
But you'll find your rhythm.

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Justa Notha link
5/19/2011 08:08:46 am

oops! I got interrupted like 10 times writing that last comment. I see that you didn't actually give advice. Well, that's my advice anyways. You could always research the company and your interveiwer first and find out more about them. Between liked in and Facebook, you might be able to get a feel for whether they are "tie friendly"

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Kyle link
5/19/2011 03:07:26 pm

BW, I go by my female name most of the time and read as a butch dyke, again, most of the time. I'm working toward a job interview at a place where I've already visited for an informal interview, and I was packing at that time. I think it's gonna depend on what I'm wearing that day and how it feels.

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Rebecca
11/1/2011 02:40:28 pm

I think you bring up some interesting questions that people face when entering interviews.

My brain took a similar journey as Justa's - how gender presentation questions really pop up for any non-cis-male presenting person. The too aggressive/not assertive enough line is pretty dang narrow for us folks.

This also made me think about an issue some colleagues of mine face that I haven't - the issue of being Black with natural hair or dreads being often read as "too aggressive" or "too radical." They've gotten a whole lot of (mostly unsolicited) instructions from a wide range of folks around how to go into interviews.

It also made me think about my own appearance as someone who's visibly modified. When the time comes for me to be interviewing, I've said that I'll go by what's most comfortable for me. But, then, I question how that'll play out for me between my first few interviews and my, say, 30th (I'm hoping I never go through that, but it makes me wonder how my feelings would change if facing repeated rejection).

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