Butch Wonders
  • Blog
  • Butch Store: Genderqueer Us
  • About
  • Contact

Reactions to "Me in a Dress"

4/3/2012

25 Comments

 
Picture
Via Tumblr. Click picture for link.
While most of you enjoyed Sunday's little prank (mmwah ha ha!), it also elicited a few reactions that surprised and interested me enough that I want to devote a post to discussing them.

A few readers (see comments on 4/1's post, as well as on Facebook) were disheartened by my joke.  They pointed out that by making fun of the idea that I would enjoy wearing a dress, I was implicitly making fun of the idea that any butch would enjoy wearing a dress.  I sincerely hope that most readers didn't take it that way--I didn't mean to suggest that a butch can't wear a dress, or that a "real" butch wouldn't do so. 

In any case, these comments made me consider identity, inclusion, and femininity some more.  A few thoughts:

1. I have no interest in policing identity...  But is this good?

I am not in the business of policing butchness.  I don't care if you wear dangly earrings, high heels, and skirts every day and call yourself butch.  I don't care if you wear men's clothes from head to toe and call yourself femme.  Anyone can "identify" as anything; as I see it, identification is up to the person identifying herself.  Yeah, I might suspect that a woman in a dress doesn't identify as butch, since I'm personally acquainted with few butches who'd voluntarily wear a dress.  But if a person tells me she's butch, then as far as I'm concerned, she's butch.

Of course, if anyone can identify as anything, so at some point, doesn't this become a little absurd?  If my white 80-year-old grandmother wants to identify as a young gay man, should she be "allowed" to? 

As far as I'm concerned, sure.  It would be hard for me to swallow, since I have pre-existing notions and biases about what young gay men look like (and they don't look like her).  I also imagine that my grandmother would face certain barriers to entry in the young gay male community.  Is this fair?  Should she?  Should they have to respect who she says she is "inside?"

Personally, I hope I'd respect her identity.  By "respect," I mean that I hope I'd genuinely see her the way sees herself and wants to be seen by others.  At the same time...

2. It's hard to be sensitive to all incarnations of an identity, especially if it's an identity you claim, and others claiming the identity don't share traits you consider central to it.

It's easier to talk about respecting other people's identities in the abstract, when when we're not talking about our own identities.

Suppose I decided to attend a social group for butches.  Suppose I showed up in jeans and a flannel button-down, but everyone else had long hair and was wearing dresses, high heels, and makeup.  Even if everyone identified as butch, I'd feel left out.  This is because for me (me personally, not in any objective sense), physical appearance is part of butchness.  In the past, I've felt like an outcast for not conforming to traditional notions of femininity.  So if the other women in the group looked like what mainstream society says women are "supposed" to look like, one of my big reasons for seeking butch community wouldn't be satisfied.  If I felt excluded enough, I might even want to start a group tailored to the traits around which I sought community.  (When people do this, they are sometimes accused of creating factions within the LGBTQ community.  Which, maybe they are.  I'm not convinced this is a bad thing in principle, but it can make people feel excluded, which feels crappy and can lead to more tension.)

As I've argued before, I believe a similar dynamic underlies tensions that can exist between female-identified butches and trans men.  Female-identified butches face certain kinds of marginalization for not looking "like women"--for not appearing to conform to the social expectations of the gender with which they identify.  But (many) trans men look "like men" to the wider world, and thus appear to conform to the expectations of the gender with which they identify.  To the extent that female-identified butches seek community based on that type of nonconformity, and/or identify as butch based on it, they may feel like there's something crucial they don't share with trans men.  I'm guessing that this feeling of dissimilarity is the root of much identity "policing" (which doesn't mean I agree with it). 

3. Rejecting traditional trappings of "femininity" and socially-loaded words like "pretty" feels really empowering to many butches.

The part of Sunday's April Fool's post that was the most amusing for me to write was:
I've been doing this whole "gender queer nonconformist" thing for so long that I forgot that it feels awesome to just be pretty.  Wearing a dress means that people see me on the outside and think I look as good as I feel on the inside.  And when it comes down to it, isn't this kind of interactive reality with other people more important than the reality we create in our own brains?

To me, this was funny because it was as if, after spending all this time and energy accepting myself as I am and eschewing mainstream notions of femininity, I was suddenly doing a 180 and talking about how good it felt to conform to society's notions of what "pretty" means. 

I suspect that the reason so many butches were horrified, then amused, at my last post, is because many of us hate dresses and can't imagine changing their minds about wearing them.  Many of us grew up feeling like traditional ideas about "being feminine" were crammed down our throats.  Saying things like, "I'll never wear a dress again" is empowering!

But if wearing a dress is who you are, regardless of your motivations for wearing it, I say go for it.  I don't care.  As you may know, I don't see masculinity and femininity as a "spectrum," such that increases in one entail decreases in the other, and vice versa.  Can you wear a dress and still call yourself butch?  Of course.  But you may encounter surprise and skepticism from others, since so many self-identified butches (myself included) have trouble imagining genuinely wanting to wear a dress, and/or genuinely wanting people to see us as "pretty."  Indeed, part of the reason I identify as butch is that it helps me embrace my lack of desire for these things.

One of my favorite things about writing this blog is that there's so much interesting feedback from readers: positive, negative, and everything in between.  I really appreciate your willingness to leap into the conversation that my "Me in a Dress" post sparked, and I look forward to reading your thoughts about this post as well.


25 Comments
Houston Splash TV
4/3/2012 05:53:43 am

If everybody just focus on what makes them happy then we woulf be a better community!

Reply
LezLuv
4/3/2012 06:04:20 am

in my mind lables are a double edged sword. It can be used in a negative way but it can also help someone find like-minded people so they don't feel alone.
And I found your April fools day prank greatly amusing. :D

Reply
Ashley
4/3/2012 06:10:51 am

im a lesbian that enjoys both sides im butch but i do the fem for dances and im great at both

Reply
Alison
4/3/2012 06:39:03 am

Ugh, that picture about femininity from the "old days" is so awful!!! It's disgusting to think of how many women were oppressed by such notions!
Fascinating post, BTW.

Reply
Yvonne
4/3/2012 06:48:30 am

the way you communicate weaves and flows...it is rich in thoughts, ideas and complex concepts done with such respect that I often stop, think and usually laugh.

You are indeed an intelligent writer and cannot wait to read a book that you have written one day

Reply
Elizabeth link
4/3/2012 07:13:28 am

I agree. It amazes me how you bring up such touchy identity issues without seeming flustered, and while staying succinct. I'm not butch but my partner is, and we both greatly appreciate what you do. Book, book!! :)

Reply
JR
4/3/2012 07:34:06 am

So, I guess where I'm at with this is more or less the same place I was when I read the April Fool's joke. I think I'm hung up on this line in particular:

'But you may encounter surprise and skepticism from others, since so many self-identified butches (myself included) have trouble imagining genuinely wanting to wear a dress, and/or genuinely wanting people to see us as "pretty."'

The word 'butch' has a long history across multiple continents. It's not just about the here and now in Canada, the US, the UK, etc. ( and don't even get me started on what 'butch' looks like, behaves like, or means in India). It's not just about appearance/aesthetics, it's not just about gender, it's not just about sexual behavior, it's about all of that and more, with several decades of historical nuance added to it.

So, while I appreciate what you're saying, and you're saying it well, it still seems like a very present tense and culturally situated interpretation of the word (the concept?). The 'so many' who were horrified and then amused represent a specific segment of the population (computer literate, to begin with). And it would appear that some of them came to self-identification as butches in a way you recognize--partly out of a lack of desire for the 'pretty.' I'm fairly sure I could dig backward through the archive and found women who came to the identity of butch by way of analyzing sexual behavior, not public gender roles, not aesthetics. Different aspects of butchness, not always coincident, but still used by some women to sort out who is 'really' butch and who is not.

Humor is tricky, of course, and it's probably impossible not to offend someone with a joke--I can start an argument with a "Why did the chicken cross the road?" joke. But I think it's telling that when a few brave people did bring up their discomfort, it only took a few more comments before someone suggested those women were being over-sensitive. It's the same type of policing I still (sadly) hear when men tell sexist jokes.

Anyway, I'm now off to the gym, where I always have the opportunity to negotiate my butchness when entering the women's locker room. Good times.

Reply
PJ
4/4/2012 09:19:56 am

Damn...your post is almost impossible to argue or criticize but there is a single bone I need to pick with you. There is a huge difference in policing the responses of women to sexist jokes told by men, and suggesting that someone grow a tougher skin over a joke such as this. Just as those women who find the April Fools post offensive, most of us hold the right to believe that it was, in fact, hilarious and while also holding the belief that butch women do not feel comfortable in dresses. Being traditionally masculine ALL the time is as admirable and mentionable as being a butch who slaps on makeup or chooses a skirt and heels every other day.

It is obvious in the queer community that there is an epidemic of oversensitivity. We have been groomed to react with passion and anger and offense at every off color comment that is within hearing (or reading) distance. What we don't consider is that perhaps, just perhaps, a majority of our discomfort and offense and anger is just a projection of self conscious thoughts regarding our own validity.

Reply
JR
4/5/2012 10:47:57 am

"It is obvious in the queer community that there is an epidemic of oversensitivity."

I can appreciate that you see it that way, but I disagree. I can't say that I've been groomed to react with passion and anger at every off color comment; in fact, I pretty much get paid to analyze whatever I read or hear.

But does it hurt to excluded from a social category--female, butch, femme, lesbian, etc.--because I don't meet someone else's definition? Sure, but that's not really what I was talking about. I think I'm more concerned with what the process of "self-identification" leaves out of the definition of butch (and all social categories). If we define what's appropriate by our own route to butch, by our own preferences, behaviors, appearances, well, that just seems to me to be a fairly narrow definition of the word. If followed without deviation, we'd end up with several very small, disconnected groups, full of people who consider themselves butch, but can't recognize the butchness of others adhering to a different definition of the word. Maybe our discomfort is a projection of our thoughts about validity as lesbians or butches, but line-drawing is also about validating oneself.

At any rate, I do think "butch" is a word/category with a deep history, a word with constantly shifting meanings. When people start talking about what a butch (or femme or trans or girl or boy, etc.) 'really' is, or how a butch 'really' behaves, my tendency is to raise an eyebrow and pull out a history book.

"Just as those women who find the April Fools post offensive, most of us hold the right to believe that it was, in fact, hilarious and while also holding the belief that butch women do not feel comfortable in dresses."

In the end, I'm not saying you don't have the right to believe the joke was funny or that butch women don't wear dresses. But I also have the right, and possibly the duty, to complicate that position, at least until the blog owner requests my silence.

bonnie
4/3/2012 08:59:49 am

i don't know how i identify half of the time anyway. i just know that i feel like i'm in drag when i wear feminine clothes. i feel feminine sometimes, but don't like looking feminine very often. and of course the manlier styles don't ever bother me..they just don't fit me :(((

Reply
Kenda
4/3/2012 09:39:06 am

I thought your post was hilarious and appreciate your sense of humor.

I agree that for many words (labels) there is a general consensus of what does and does not fit the definition. For instance, if I'm living in poverty but call myself wealthy because I feel wealthy, most people are going to think I'm eccentric or that I need to stop reading "The Secret". I should not take it personally if someone is confused by me calling myself wealthy; it just doesn't fit the general definition.

As for the 50's cutout asking, "Do you remember not to stride...to walk with a spring as if you like to dance?"...this gives me new sympathy for my mother's generation. Dear lord!

Reply
Moon Goddess
4/3/2012 10:08:45 am

Totally fell for your prank!! Dammit, that's the second Butch that's 'got me' fooled!!! Har har

Reply
marie
4/3/2012 10:24:53 am

There are some butches that would look totally ridiculous in a dress. And then Ive seen some butches that I think would look totally hot in a dress.

Reply
amc
4/3/2012 01:09:59 pm

I love when we get glimpses into your thoughts in this way. You're good at taking a complex topic and talking about it in a simple, understandable manner. You obviously think deeply about these and many other topics, which I appreciate because I do the same thing.

Reply
CassandraToday link
4/3/2012 05:09:24 pm

This discussion intersects with the debate (fight?) I've been reading between Cathy Brennan (writing as bugbrennan) and Antonia Elle D'Orsay (writing as Dyssonance), over the issue of whether male-to-female trans people are "woman" enough to enter women-only spaces like restrooms, locker rooms, and so forth.

I'm a trans woman, so you won't be surprised when I say that I see Brennan's arguments as problematical (though I like to believe that I would think that even if I weren't trans). D'Orsay isn't the writer Brennan is, but she still makes a strong case for treating trans women as women.

Your post, though, has shown me some nuances I hadn't applied to that fight.

"It's hard to be sensitive to all incarnations of an identity, especially if it's an identity you claim, and others claiming the identity don't share traits you consider central to it."

This is the position Brennan is in. I (and D'Orsay) happen to disagree with the centrality of some traits that she considers essential to her own identity -- woman. But as long as Brennan does consider them central, it can't help but be hard for her to be sensitive to trans women's identities as women. While I still oppose her ideas and actions, this insight gives me more sympathy for her.

It's easy to hate people when you feel they're threatening your identity. But I don't want to hate. Thanks for giving me a new way to think about this conflict.






Reply
Jessi
4/3/2012 10:00:22 pm

As I was wakened extra-early today (by my cat sitting on my head and purring), I have nothing useful or coherent to say. I will, however share the fact that, for me, wearing a brightly colored floor-length sun-dress on my bulky, muscular, slightly-tattooed frame, and with my hair buzz-cut . . . is AWESOME. Especially when it prompted somebody's toddler in the grocery store to exclaim loudly: "LOOK, Mommy, it's a boy in a dress!!" The mom apologized, and I told her it was no problem; I was glad to help complicate her child's concept of gender. Just got the sun-dress out of storage the other day, and am touching up the buzz-cut this morning. Gender essentialist toddlers of the world (or, well, of north-central WV, anyway), beware!

Reply
marie
4/4/2012 09:57:38 am

Post a picture. Please!

Reply
Levi link
5/8/2012 06:22:32 am

THIS COMMENT says everything I wanted to get across. Thanks, Jessi, from another butch who does girl-drag on occasion!

Reply
Caughtinyoureyes
4/5/2012 03:02:59 am

So, it WAS a great prank. It IS for fun and also social comment. We are all different. I've got ten piercings, all visible on my ears ;), and I'm soooo butch in my head. I had a former student ask me if I was ever going to wear a dress to work again, 'cause she said that I what looked like back when I was married and living ( notice the "living" and not being) straight, she said I was in drag.

I love the labels. Since I'm only living lesbian for such a short time, I feel like a baby dyke. I embrace the terms butch. My wife was horrified that I used that term to describe myself, since she is an old school, retired military girl, and "butch/dyke" was a way to make you feel bad about yourself, unworthy, and somthing beneath society's contempt when she was first dating women. She was never "out," obviously.

Now that I use butch and dyke frequently, she has come to enjoy the term between her and me. She's my baby butch and I'm her boi toi butch.

BTW-no dress, no way, no how. Even for the niece's wedding. Cool suit, YUP!

Reply
DTanner
4/12/2012 03:01:40 am

Hey.....Im the freaked out over the Aprils fools post I still shiver over the words Pink and Poofy.......OMG....lol
So I bought the $259.00 boots off your site just to make sure I am as strong as I think I am....
I love the discuss stares straight men give me and the almost vomit they hold back when my partner walks up beside me.......lol
If those same men wear pink and poofy and reminded to keep their place in the pecking order of the straight world they would be begging for my boots. Which I may never hear the end of when my partner sees how much I spent on them......
F*** that pink shit sisters......
Rock on Boots.....

Reply
DTanner
4/15/2012 08:41:22 am

My boots will be in tomorrow

Reply
Butch Wonders link
4/15/2012 10:18:25 am

Those boots are *awesome*. I'd buy 'em myself if I could. Send me a pic, will ya?

marie
4/15/2012 12:01:10 pm

Reply
CJ
6/6/2012 12:08:06 am

I would say I would feel absolutelly out of place in a dress or something like that. Drag........although I wont mind the next butch doing it.

Reply
プレゼント選び link
7/17/2012 09:46:36 pm

Drag........although I wont mind the next butch doing it.

Reply

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.


Leave a Reply.

    TWITTER
    FACEBOOK
    INSTAGRAM
    EMAIL ME
    Picture


    ​Blogs I Like

    A Butch in the Kitchen
    A Stranger in This Place
    Bookish Butch
    Butch on Tap
    Card Carrying Lesbian
    ​
    Chapstick Femme

    Effing Dykes
    Feral Librarian
    Lawyers, Dykes, and Money

    Mainely Butch
    Neutrois Nonsense
    Pretty Butch
       

    Categories (NOT up to date...  working on it)

    All
    Accessories
    Adventures
    Advice
    Bisexuality
    Blogging
    Books
    Butch Identity
    Cars
    Clothes
    Coming Out
    Community
    Dating
    Family
    Fashion
    Female Masculinity
    Fiction
    Friends
    Gaydar
    Gender
    Girlfriends
    Guest Posts
    Hair
    Health
    Humor
    Husbands
    Identity
    Interviews
    Intro
    Lgbt Community
    Lgbt Law
    Lgbt Relationships
    Lists
    Marriage
    Media
    Politics
    Polls
    Pride
    Pride Project
    Readers
    Relationships
    Religion
    Reviews
    Search Terms
    Shopping
    Silliness
    Social Change
    Ties
    Trans
    Work


    Archives

    May 2019
    February 2019
    September 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    March 2018
    November 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    April 2017
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    August 2015
    July 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014
    February 2014
    January 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    April 2013
    March 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    August 2012
    July 2012
    June 2012
    May 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011

    RSS Feed

 
  • Blog
  • Butch Store: Genderqueer Us
  • About
  • Contact