Butch Wonders
  • Blog
  • Butch Store: Genderqueer Us
  • About
  • Contact

Something I Don't Know About, But Will Write About Anyway: Polyamory!

4/26/2012

25 Comments

 
I had an interesting conversation with a straight female friend of mine yesterday.  She happens to have a bunch of polyamorous friends, though she and her (amazingly wonderful) boyfriend happen to be monogamous.

Anyway, this friend recently attended a polyamorous commitment ceremony.  Here's the situation, as I understand it: The ceremony centered around (A) a man and (B) a woman (already married to each other), plus (C) a second woman who has a relationship with both of them.  The point of the ceremony was for the woman to affirm her commitment to this married couple, and vice versa.  Their parents were there (as if coming out to your folks as LGBT isn't hard enough, right?).  A, B, and C live together.  Two of them also have at least one relationship outside of the trio (to D and E, who are unconnected).  The husband and wife (A and B) used to have a relationship with another husband-and-wife couple (F and G), but A broke up with G.  B and F are still together.  

Whoa.

Before we go any further, a working definition: Polyamory is when you have a relationship (usually emotional and physical, but certainly emotional) with more than one person simultaneously.  Often, polyamorous people have a primary partner with whom they have their "main" relationship, and one or two other people with whom they also have enduring emotional and sexual relationships.  Polyamory is sometimes referred to as "responsible non-monogamy," because a central tenet is that there aren't any secrets--everyone knows whom everyone else is dating.

This is different from an open relationship because (typically) in open relationships, both people in the relationship agree that they can sleep with other people, but are emotionally monogamous.  Often, these couples have an agreement that they can't have "repeat" partners (in order to avoid becoming emotionally connected to anyone besides their partner), and/or an agreement that if they do start to have feelings for another person, that they will no longer sleep with that person, and/or an agreement that they will not sleep with mutual acquaintances. 

As you might imagine, there are practically unlimited configurations.  I know one gay male couple who has a list of 5-10 people with whom they are each allowed to sleep.  They have to get sexual partners pre-approved by one another, their lists can't overlap, and they aren't allowed to have sexual escapades with any of these people in their own house, or spend the night with them.  They can get emotionally attached to these other people, as long as these attachments don't rival or interfere with their attachments to each other.  (I don't know if they consider their relationship "open" or "poly.") 

Some polyamorous folks live together in groups of three or more, and may even raise children together.  Others keep calendars; they might spend Tuesdays and Wednesdays with their second lover and the other with their primary partner. 

These arrangements make my head spin.  I don't think they're wrong in an objective sense, but I don't think they'd work for me.  The main reasons:
  1. Management challenges.  I can barely handle the demands of one partner, two pets, a blog, and a couple jobs.  Adding another partner to the mix?  Who has that kind of time?
  2. Emotional demands.  I've (briefly) tried dating more than one person at once.  Maybe this would have worked if anyone I was dating was dating anyone else.  But they weren't.  And it felt like everyone was trying to win my affections.  I wanted to feel studly, but instead, I felt like a player (not in a good way). 
  3. Jealousy.  Not other people's (though that's a problem, too), but my own.  If I was dating someone who was also dating someone else,
    I would be absurdly jealous.  Hell, occasionally I get jealous of exes who start dating other people, even if I'm the one who ended the relationship.  The idea of my DGF spending a night or two a week with someone else makes me want to tear my hair out.  While crying. 

Successful practitioners of polyamory manage to overcome these challenges, so I know it can be done.  But I think I'm wired for monogamy, the same way I'm wired to be a butchy lesbian.

This got me to thinking: if I'm "wired" for monogamy, then probably some people are wired for polyamory.  Does this mean that polyamory is a sexual orientation?  Or is it a sexual preference?  I've heard both from polyamorous people, and maybe different things are true for different people.

If polyamory is a sexual orientation, this has major implications.  For one, I believe that a person's sexual orientation should be protected by law.  Does this mean that poly marriages should be legal?  And if so, what does this mean for things like tax breaks and health insurance?  (For more on the legal implications of polyamory, check out this article I just found.) 

As I've written about before, I'm not entirely sure that the government should be in the business of endorsing marriage relationships at all, aside from allowing people to form contracts about issues like child-rearing, inheritance, etc.  Getting the government out of the business of regulating these relationships would be a step towards poly equality, I suppose.

In theory, I totally support poly equality.  In practice, I have a gut reaction against it.  I flinch at the idea of polyamorous households adopting kids.  And I can't articulate a concrete reason why, except that it goes against my idea of what relationships "should" be.  Which, when you think about it, makes me no better than gay marriage opponents who want their moral inclinations to prevent people like me from getting married. 

Would I vote for governmental recognition of polyamorous marriage?  I'd like to say, of course!  And in the voting booth, I believe my answer would be yes.  But it would be an uncomfortable yes.  And this discomfort makes me feel guilty and hypocritical. 

What do you think about this, dear readers?  Have any of you monogamous types felt the kinds of things I'm describing? 

And I know I have some poly readers, too: I claim no real knowledge about polyamory, so feel free to jump in, correct me, enlighten me, etc!

    Subscribe to BW:

Submit
25 Comments
Lyndsay
4/26/2012 04:19:43 am

I don't think the law should get involved with consenting adults personal life. That being said I think this kind of relationship (if you can call it that) is a cop out. In my opinion its a symptom of commitment phobic people trying to make their fears and adequacies

Reply
Lyndsay
4/26/2012 04:23:58 am

**inadequacies seem legit. Not that it is any of my buisness but for me it takes a stronger person to be with one person. Why bother being committed to anyone? If you can't give someone your full attention than you'll never have a fulfilling relationship with anyone.

Reply
Gotta withold
4/26/2012 04:32:01 am

Wow Lindsay ... I disagree with you completely... that's very judgemental... and frankly, I think you'll find many poly folks who will take exception to the idea that they are not committed.. quite the opposite.. it take quite a strong commitment to make it work...

Butch Wonders link
4/26/2012 04:58:22 am

@ Lyndsay and Gotta: I tend to agree with Gotta on this one. Unless you believe that love is a finite commodity.

Dana
4/26/2012 04:20:15 am

I am in a poly relationship and I always thought of it as a type of open relationship like Wicca is a form of Paganism rather than open relationships and poly relationships being two distinct entities separate from each. If you want to learn more about polyamory I recommend the book The Ethical Slut.

Reply
Gotta Withold
4/26/2012 04:28:35 am

I left my name off as I have no clue who might read this. I'm monogamous now, in practice -- in theory we are poly but in three years we haven't acted on it. My partner and I came from a rather unpleasant, for us, poly background. Hold on to your head -- I'll set it spinning again -- I was with A. A had another poly partner B. I had another partner C, she has one D. D and A were good friends, A and C were good friends. I also had a play partner (leather) E -- and much to everyone's horror, he was a man. Fast forward through many breakups and lots of time. I am now partnered (and engaged to D). A is with C, sort of (we're not sure what it is, but its a something). I have no clue what B is doing. I was with A&C at the same time -- knew D as a friend, though everyone tried to keep us apart. Wonder why? :)

E and I are still good friends, though it doesn't go further than that.
Is that clear?

It didn't work well, for many reasons, but I will say, the part that did work is that each of those relationships had a very strong power exchange in them (there's the leather part) and that part worked well as most of us had a clear idea of who we were in one another's lives.

There are lots of issues -- and I've found, even with the best of people, under the best of circumstances who really mean well -- it can go straight to hell in a hand basket. I do support it though for those that can manage it. In terms of legal stuff -- I'm fine with it, until it gets perverted to coerce young girls to have sex with and marry old men (obscure mormon sects).

Reply
Just Me
4/26/2012 04:44:31 am

I personally don't see anything wrong with a poly relationship. Who are we to judge the personal lives of anyone else? I've never been in a poly relationship, but since it's hard enough to make one relationship work, the people in a poly relationship probably have to work at least twice as hard to keep it together.

Reply
Butch Wonders link
4/26/2012 04:59:20 am

Yeah, I agree. But what do you think about the legal implications of this? Should the govt recognize poly relationships?

Reply
A. Nonny
4/26/2012 04:58:45 am

My partner and I love each other but do not have sex. If it was legal to marry, she is the one I would want to marry but sex is still a big deal to me and not to her. I keep thinking that maybe an open relationship, or even a poly one if we could find a third we agreed upon, might be an answer. I believe I am inherently monogamous too, but have always had an open mind about other kinds of relationships and now am wondering if it would be a way to give me what I need without losing the woman I love. The big question is would she go for it. This is not how I ever saw this ending up but it's what I'm grasping at now. Honestly, I don't think she would go for it, which is why I haven't brought it up yet. I'm not even really sure I could act on it.

Reply
Shae
4/26/2012 06:12:43 am

While I have tried the polyamory thing, I found it to be emotionally exhausting because I kept wanting to make sure my time was spent equally and that emotional closeness was equal, etc. I do feel that I am monogamous, but I do not think that is right for everyone. I feel like marriage, which is a contact, should be allowed to be between more than two people. Why not? They can all be committed to eachother and benefits can be decided amongst them. Health insurance can be for one person while another person takes care of the care insurance etc. I don't see the harm in it or in raising children that way. The children would have plenty of love and attention and grow up with an understanding of how relationships come in all shapes and sizes. I'm sure the parents would explain how their relationship works and how monogamy etc works. I honestly never gave it a moment's thought about the marriage issue, but thought, if that's what they want, then fine. Who am I to tell them how to love, live and marry. In the end we're all just people and I think how they choose to live is fine for them if it works for them. They obviously know some people aren't that way and some people are. I say good for them for figuring out a way to make that situation work.

Reply
Shae
4/26/2012 06:16:01 am

***car insurance and health insurance

Reply
tntnikki
4/26/2012 06:23:25 am

I think governments ,if they must be involved in the ratification of any union , should indeed be obliged to recognize ANY union of consenting adults, regardless of the particular details.

I govt recognized marriage is for the purposes of securing certain rights. And all should be equally able to access those.

Reply
Cherry
4/26/2012 07:03:22 am

Good post! I've been doing non-monogamy or polyamory or whatever you want to call it in various forms for more than 10 years. Here are a few of my thoughts:

I don't necessarily think anyone is "wired" for monogamy OR "wired" for polyamory. I think everyone's priorities are different, and also, things shift. For me, sexual freedom is vital. Romantic freedom was once vital, it's not so much presently. My partner and I now mostly have sex outside of our relationship but we're not looking for serious romantic dates. It's not off the table, though.

Either way, when these things are vital, non-negotiable desires, I have a motivation to figure out how to make it work. I have a huge motivation to learn how to handle jealousy and communicate and manage my time.

I have had serious long-term relationships with people who didn't really care much one way or the other. They were able to be happily non-monogamous with me, and they are now happily monogamous.

On the "Who has the time?" bit: We all juggle multiple relationships ALL THE TIME - friendships, family obligations, work relationships, etc. We also all tend to juggle hobbies, working out, other interests. If it's a priority for someone to be involved romantically with more than one person, awesome! They'll fit it in. Some people have really intense friendships that take up a lot of time. It's just all about where we choose to put our time.

So like, I can no longer fit in serious secondary relationships into my life, and that's because I'm putting my time elsewhere. :)

As far as legalities, I think we all should be able to designate any adults we wish as legal caretakers of our children, beneficiaries of our wills, and so on. Whether it's just one person (a romantic partner, a platonic partner, another relative) or five people.

Thanks for broaching the subject!

Reply
Robin VR
4/26/2012 07:20:44 am

Hi! I am monogamous, but I think it is quite possible to have multiple stable relationships and to raise children with more than two parents.

Reply
maddox link
4/26/2012 08:44:20 am

Very well put Cherry.

I feel very akin to BW. My gut reaction said "no" but the more I am exposed to, read, think about, and process the concept of poly - and especially realistically think of situations - the more my gut subsides and I don't see or feel anything "wrong" with it.

I don't know if some people are "wired" but I could never have multiple partners, nor could my partner, because jealousy would overpower us eventually. At the same time, I do feel it possible to develop romantic (and sexual, but I'm asexual) connections to multiple people at the same time, something I once thought was out of the question. So from that perspective, I completely understand polyamorous people.

As for legality, Cherry says it well - we designate legal dependents and guardians / caretakers for children. For example, companies cover insurance for dependents, just one spouse, but multiple children. Why not multiple spouses or domestic partners? Of course you just set a limit on numbers (I assume there already is one...) But if you dig deeper, since our whole society is built around the concept of a pair, I bet it'll get gnarly.

Reply
Saysme
4/26/2012 11:33:10 am

Maybe I am just too busy or something. But no way could I deal with more than one other person's emotions in an intimate relationship. I do like my alone time too...shoot I don't even know how to balance life with one person. And I don't think I would feel as special as with one....

Reply
CassandraToday link
4/26/2012 01:38:57 pm

Could I have handled polyamory at 20? No. At 40? Probably not. But by now, I'm a lot more comfortable in my own skin, in my own self. And I've seen two long-term (17 & 12 years) traditional marriages end badly. I don't see anything magic about monogamous relationships any more, though truth be told, I don't see anything magic about poly either.

Theoretically, my current g/f and I are poly, though in practice neither of us has found someone else to add to the mix. I could see it working, though. A big part of what makes our relationship work is honest communication about how we can and can't meet each other's needs. We lead our own lives, and mostly just see each other once a week, Saturday afternoon into Sunday afternoon -- that's just an example of how we don't try to be everything to each other. I can imagine having a romantic or even sexual "sometimes" relationship with someone else, but I really can't picture being so devoted to anyone that I'd want to spend all my time with them, leaving my current gf out of the picture. And she seems to feel the same way.

As I say, though, it's all theoretical. And as a 61-year-old trans woman, I've learned not to hold my breath waiting for someone to take a romantic interest in me, so it's likely to remain theoretical. If that ever changes, I'm sure I'll have new thoughts about the whole matter.

And as far as legal arrangements, I think the government's role should be limited to the same things as with any contract -- proscribe exploitive contracts, and provide the mechanism to make sure everyone lives up to their end of the deal. As far as kids, seems to me that the breakup of a poly-based family has the potential to be better for the kids, in that there's more chance they won't end up in a single-parent family.

TL;DR I know. But you did ask for our thoughts.

Reply
CassandraToday link
4/26/2012 01:41:10 pm

PS - I just noticed your favicon for the first time. I love it!

Reply
Stacey
4/26/2012 04:46:32 pm

I can really understand what you're saying because I feel the same way. But the more open minded part of me sometimes argues with the traditional side of me (as traditional as a lesbian can be haha). So basically it comes down to this for me, if they can manage it and everyone is happy then great! Kudos! I imagine that takes a lot of hard work and a lot of commitment. Could I ever do it? Hell no. But it's not my life so more power to them.

But the government getting involved in such things, I'm not sure.

Reply
Deborah
4/26/2012 04:56:38 pm

Way back when, in the beginning of our relationship, my lovely lady wife and I were poly. Or at least, we tried to be poly. She spent a week in London with a woman and I spent a week tearing my hair out and punching things. I tried to hook up with a couple people, she tried to remove the skin from her arms with her fingernails. It didn't work out well for either of us, I think we're both just way too damn possessive to ever see other people in a polyamorous kind of way. Having said that, we do have an arrangement for taking a third party into bed with both of us, so far it hasn't lead anywhere but we have a hot lesbian couple visiting from Sweden this summer and I suspect I'm going to be spending a large part of that visit in the bedroom. We've talked it through extensively and I don't think it'll be a problem as long as we're both involved and know exactly what's going on. Fingers crossed.

Reply
Polyme
4/27/2012 12:51:45 am

Its great to see so many readers being open minded!

Just thought I'd share my poly experience with the group. When I met my girlfriend, she had been together with her girlfriend for 13 years. We've now been together for 5 and it works. So my girl & i are
In a committed long term relationship, & she is also in a committed long term relationship with her girlfriend. At the start it took A LOT of figuring out, time management and personal growth, but she was open with both of us about her feelings and intentions and I couldn't imagine life without her.
All 3 of us live together & have done since a month after my girl & I got together. It takes practice & commitment, but I know that the love she has for me isn't related to or diminished by her loving her other girlfriend.
We would love to have kids, but managing that & the judgement that would come with it would be tough but worth it. They say it takes a tribe to raise a child, we've pretty much got our own tribe in house :)

Reply
Blue
4/27/2012 02:49:43 am

1. Polygamous marriages have been recognized in the past, and still are today in some places. So, recognizing polyamorous relationships wouldn't be a new thing.

2. I know tons of kids who have four parents, because their original parents split up and both remarried. Sure it's traumatic watching your parents divorce, but simply having four parents doesn't (at least anecdotally) seem to cause trauma.

3. The 'I don't care what consenting adults do but I don't think it's right/natural/should be legitimized by the gov't/don't want to see it.' is the same thing homophobes say when they say that same sex couples shouldn't be allowed to get married. Just saying "I'm not prejudiced but..." doesn't make you not prejudiced.

4. People get married when they realize they've found the person they want to spend the rest of their lives with. If a group of three people realize they want to spend the rest of their lives together, then why shouldn't they?

5. The one place where I could see things becoming legally difficult is divorce. If Kathy and Sharon are married and want to get divorced, it's pretty straight forward, but if Kathy, Linda and Sharon are married and Kathy and Sharon and Kathy and Linda want to stay married but Linda and Sharon do not, then I'm not sure how that would work out. I do not have any experience either myself or through my friends of poly relationships though, so maybe the above situation would not arise? I am also not a lawyer.

At any rate, I am uncomfortable when people suggest that those in poly/open relationships are less moral, or have less real feelings, than those in monogamous relationships. Perhaps some of the gut ugh experienced by monogamous people has to do with cheating? I don't mean anybody who has commented here per se, but just that currently, the most talked about form of non-monogamy is non-consensual non-monogamy, ie. cheating. I can see how it would be difficult if not impossible to have a fulfilling relationship with multiple people if there is cheating involved, but if everybody is aware and on board, I don't see the problem.

Reply
brought in
5/20/2013 08:51:06 am

I have a friend I am getting ready to officiate a polyamorous commitment ceremony for. She was was raised with her parents being polyamorous, her mom had a husband and a boyfriend, living in house. As I graduated high school, my mother entered a poly relationship. Is it for me? Heck no. It kinda makes my head hurt. But there is something to be said about a well functioning one. Ultimately a well functioning one probably has more communication and trust than the standard monogamous relationship. In regards to government, there should be a separation of church and state. Period. How can personal lives really be regulated and honestly, how sacred are marriage vows in general when you have married couples cheating on each other? It takes away the vow entirely, because the person did not hold to it. When if comes to adoption, I feel like all things should be taken into account. Looking at my household with my roommate, it takes both of us working as a couple and family (for lack of better words) to take care of our three kids. It takes a village.... and there is something to be said for having extra hands involved in parenting, but should be graded on a same relative scale that a regular couple would have, all things would have to be taken into consideration. Things like stability, finances, etc. would have to be considered. Same as anyone else adopting. With me and her, and throwing her boyfriend and wife in, (even though I'm not in the relationship whatsoever) the added help and advice is appreciated and balances out. When one person starts to get frustrated or lose patience, someone else in the same mindset is able to step in.

Reply
CassandraToday link
5/21/2013 12:21:25 pm

Hey there "brought in" -- would you be willing to be in touch by e-mail? This whole topic is more personal for me know than it was a year ago. And in a complicated sort of way, I'm in ministry -- which I guess you are? Anyway, our blogger here, ButchWonders, hereby has my permission to share my e-mail addr with you. Then you can write if you want, or not if you don't. Thanks.

Reply
Heather
6/20/2013 07:37:08 am

I'm monogamous, but poly-inclusive. I have no problem with healthy poly families being able to marry if that is their desire or just go about their business unmarried if that's what they prefer. Yes, I put a qualifier in. Just like I'm opposed to underage marriage in any other circumstance, that's going to apply here, as well as poly groups that involve abuse or put their marriage above their children (I have an equal problem with heterosexual monogamous marriages that do this, too--neglect is neglect, regardless of orientation, and the kids didn't choose to be there--the parents DID).

So, basically, I see poly relationships like anyone else's. They could be great or they could be destructive and unhealthy.

On the kids? Well, the only study (informal) done on them shows that, just like children of homosexual couples, they grow up healthy, happy and socially 'normal' (homosexual parents tend to raise heterosexual kids; poly parents tend to raise monogamous kids). http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-without-limits/201103/polyamory-and-children

Reply

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.


Leave a Reply.

    TWITTER
    FACEBOOK
    INSTAGRAM
    EMAIL ME
    Picture


    ​Blogs I Like

    A Butch in the Kitchen
    A Stranger in This Place
    Bookish Butch
    Butch on Tap
    Card Carrying Lesbian
    ​
    Chapstick Femme

    Effing Dykes
    Feral Librarian
    Lawyers, Dykes, and Money

    Mainely Butch
    Neutrois Nonsense
    Pretty Butch
       

    Categories (NOT up to date...  working on it)

    All
    Accessories
    Adventures
    Advice
    Bisexuality
    Blogging
    Books
    Butch Identity
    Cars
    Clothes
    Coming Out
    Community
    Dating
    Family
    Fashion
    Female Masculinity
    Fiction
    Friends
    Gaydar
    Gender
    Girlfriends
    Guest Posts
    Hair
    Health
    Humor
    Husbands
    Identity
    Interviews
    Intro
    Lgbt Community
    Lgbt Law
    Lgbt Relationships
    Lists
    Marriage
    Media
    Politics
    Polls
    Pride
    Pride Project
    Readers
    Relationships
    Religion
    Reviews
    Search Terms
    Shopping
    Silliness
    Social Change
    Ties
    Trans
    Work


    Archives

    May 2019
    February 2019
    September 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    March 2018
    November 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    April 2017
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    August 2015
    July 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014
    February 2014
    January 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    April 2013
    March 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    August 2012
    July 2012
    June 2012
    May 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011

    RSS Feed

 
  • Blog
  • Butch Store: Genderqueer Us
  • About
  • Contact